Not an American, but seeing the current divide in the US makes me curious. What would happen if Trump wins again in 2020?
Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
111–120 of 398 posts
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#112"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...
Camden had the most violent crime in 2019 [1], but are around the 12th highest population in NJ in 2017 [2]. They are the 10th most dangerous city in the country [3] as of 2020 according to neighborhood scout. The FBI ranked it #1 in 2012. [4] Yep, sure seems like a success story.... [1] https://nj1015.com/the-10-most-violent-cities-in-new-jersey-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Ne...…
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but good stats. From #1 ranked dangerous country in 2012, a disbandment in 2013, and #10 today seems at least somewhat successful to me
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Incremental reform has failed when you have corrupt unions and entrenched cultures. Yes, you should usually try to incrementally fix bugs in a codebase. But sometimes it's so mired in technical debt that you're better off throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch.
> That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Are you implying there haven't been improvements at all? Seriously, if you say things like this, you should need to provide some statistics. I'm pretty sure we're at all time lows for police killing unarmed people (don't know where I saw the statistic but this is why I'm so skeptical of the above statement).
Looking at the police brutality over the past 2 weeks, including blatant attacks on journalists and peaceful protestors, makes it clear that they have not been "reformed."
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#114I hope this happens, and that Minneapolis citizens can build an institution of their own that they can actually have faith in.
My main concern around this is the array of outside systemic forces that would want to see this project fail: Make no mistake, if Minneapolis goes through with this, and if it succeeds, there are a massive numer of other police departments in other cities who will see this as an existential threat, and and will almost certainly act to see that it fails
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#115"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...
Camden had the most violent crime in 2019 [1], but are around the 12th highest population in NJ in 2017 [2]. They are the 10th most dangerous city in the country [3] as of 2020 according to neighborhood scout. The FBI ranked it #1 in 2012. [4] Yep, sure seems like a success story.... [1] https://nj1015.com/the-10-most-violent-cities-in-new-jersey-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Ne...…
Third most crime in 2019* whoops
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, Americans need to realize that almost everything about our society is a bad first draft, in need of prompt replacement. People reflexively defend existing institutions, but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving. Police departments might be a good place to start, but most American cities also need to address structural d…
>but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving There is so much about America that is worth preserving. One easy example right off the top of my head is the law and culture that enables people to peacefully demonstrate like they are today. Even discussing the idea of doing this in many countries could get you killed - or worse! Tha…
> The idea of an internment camp is not even considered.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/ice-detention-coronavirus-...
https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfe...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac...
https://archive.is/bxmYQ [WaPo]
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#117"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...
Camden had the most violent crime in 2019 [1], but are around the 12th highest population in NJ in 2017 [2]. They are the 10th most dangerous city in the country [3] as of 2020 according to neighborhood scout. The FBI ranked it #1 in 2012. [4] Yep, sure seems like a success story.... [1] https://nj1015.com/the-10-most-violent-cities-in-new-jersey-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Ne...…
From tfa:
> Homicides in Camden reached 67 in 2012; the figure for 2019 was 25.
yes, I would call almost a 2/3rds reduction in homicides a success
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
- Bodycams - Mandatory psych evals half-yearly - Anonymous corruption reporting - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties - Eliminate civil forfeiture - Ticketing revenues no longer fund the department - Expanded auditing of violent calls Unfortunately, the greater group of protesters is incapable of understanding nuanced policy or democratic change. I fully expect MN to swing red this election as a result of this.
- What happens when the bodycams are off? Is the officer fired and jailed? - What happens when an officer fails the pysch eval? Are they fired? - Who oversees the corruption reporting? How do you know they are not corrupt too? They surely can't be part of the police dept. - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties: The problem is racism where drugs are often used as the excuse. Why is there no racism training in your list? Or…
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Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
That hardly seems comparable.
It's directly comparable. It didn't work so well in Ukraine either, which has an educated, Western society. They disbanded and "rebuilt" their police force to step away from Russian influences. Corruption came back, but in the meantime, a lot of operation efficiency was lost. Swapping out a police department is much like swapping out a dev team - you are losing a LOT of tribal knowledge, and you have few guarantees t…
They are not doing that to solve any real problems. They are doing that to calm down the mob.
Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Camden had the most violent crime in 2019 [1], but are around the 12th highest population in NJ in 2017 [2]. They are the 10th most dangerous city in the country [3] as of 2020 according to neighborhood scout. The FBI ranked it #1 in 2012. [4] Yep, sure seems like a success story.... [1] https://nj1015.com/the-10-most-violent-cities-in-new-jersey-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Ne...…
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but good stats. From #1 ranked dangerous country in 2012, a disbandment in 2013, and #10 today seems at least somewhat successful to me
Not sure how a steady decline in crime over a 10 year span is a failure!
https://www.tapinto.net/towns/camden/sections/law-and-justic...