America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#211

Post by rabidrat » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #92

The article’s authors are losing sight of the original justification for the lockdowns: “flatten the curve” was about preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed. Of course cases will increase when people leave their homes. But have the hospitals been overwhelmed in any of the states that started to reopen several weeks ago? No! In that case the lockdowns have served their purpose. The authors of this article are arg…

In addition to preventing hospitals being overwhelmed, the lockdowns were intended to give us time to develop the infrastructure for adequate testing, tracing, and supportive isolation. With those things in place, we can re-open and still keep the virus in check.

If we don't have those things in place, the problem is not the re-opening, which was inevitable since indefinite lockdown and isolation is not sustainable anyway.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#212

Post by garrickvanburen » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

No, not giving up. Just reprioritized. All I think we’ve proven is that a large percentage of the population is more comfortable risking a infection and far less comfortable with the police violence.

There’s nothing in here about disregarding recommendations from epidemiologists. It’s about saying enough is enough on a persistent threat, not an acute one.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#213

Post by robocat » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #9

mberning wrote: post #2

Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people. We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedi…

The “open letter” signed by 1200 experts stating that protesting was no risk, except for protests against the lockdown itself, was also mind boggling in its audacity.

"One in every 1,000 Black men and boys can expect to be killed by police in this country". If we presume average years of life lost per black person’s death is 50 years, then Covid is less deadly.

To lower risk, black people could stay at home and wait for better times...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#214

Post by dang » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

mberning wrote: post #2

Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people. We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedi…

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're here for curious conversation, not tendentious snark.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#215

Post by dang » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #34

mberning wrote: post #2

Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people. We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedi…

> We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. Tell that to the families of the dead. I’m sure they’ll be happy to know they died propping up your portfolios while people starve on the streets. It’s the most american thing ever to insist on returning to work above all other values—there’s that death cult for you. The dow demands blood!

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, and particularly please don't cross into personal attack.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#216

Post by kortilla » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

Strongly disagree, I think the freedom of speech (the ability to disseminate information widely) is massively more important than gathering in large crowds. How would you even know there were protests or something to even protest without free speech and press?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#217

Post by dageshi » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

glofish wrote: post #143

thethethethe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a small business owner, for example, and it's illegal to operate that business, your life is also in danger and your situation deserves empathy This is a false dichotomy. Sure, these people (and their workers) deserve empathy and support, but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to reopen. You can support business owners via financial aid or other measures while their business is closed.

no, this is not about empathy but personal autonomy and sovereignity and autocracy. Why not allow someone to do something if they are willing to take the risk, why treat them as criminals? If you believe that you get infected at a store, don't go to the store ... case closed. On what basis is the state "protecting" someone that does not want to be protected? On what basis is someone considered a criminal when a crime…

Presumably said people would be willing to forfeit medical treatment and quietly die at home if they did catch it?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#218

Post by tsimionescu » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #154

enraged_camel wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you put the word justified in quotes?

Either the vitriol people received for protesting the lockdown, wanting to reopen their businesses and resume life - they were labelled essentially as murderers and #COVIDIOTS - was justified OR the mass protests, flouting of concern about the virus, etc. is justified. You cannot have both. So either those out and about without masks, or protesting the lockdown, etc. AND the current protests are justified as COVID is…

I think it is perfectly rational to believe that one set of protests support a bad or unimportant cause and another support an important and good cause, and thus judge that one set of protests is justified despite the risks, while another is not justified. Why would this be an irrational/hypocritical position to take?

Of course, the belief in the importance or validity even of the causes of either protest can vary between people, so various people may support none, one or both protests, according to their particular beliefs. I wouldn't call any of these people irrational (though of course I have my own beliefs and only agree with one of these positions).

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#219

Post by covidSurvivor19 » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Because this is an election year, so get back into place, and either support the engineered chaos or stay at home while it happens. /s <- unnecesary but these days there is so little critical thought and reading skills that you never know

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#220

Post by dang » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

All: if commenting, please be up to date on the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and be sure follow them. Start here:

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Don't use a thread like this to fulminate or flame. It helps no one. It adds toxic fumes. Regardless of how right you are or which color the fumes, that points in the direction we're trying to avoid in this community.

There are important and interesting issues here. It's fine to debate, but do it within the guidelines. You'll do a better job of making your substantive points that way too.