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America is giving up on the pandemic?

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#111

Post by ribasushi »

axguscbklp wrote: post #88
eganist wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a certain misery that comes with [...] watching 10,000 people pack together downtown exercising their right to free assembly, and likely undoing all those months of progress. Yep, that's called privilege. And I'm not even trying to be snarky. From the perspective of the protesters, taking this opportunity to protest and possibly achieve change means hopefully lowering the general mortality risk for generati…

But are the protests really founded on something significant? If they focused simply on police brutality regardless of race, that would be one thing, but the general narrative seems to be that there is a big problem of white-on-black violence in the form of cops. Now, there is such a problem, but this ignores the wider context that in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black…

> in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black violence

In the interest of discourse, I am genuinely curious: how did you arrive at the quoted statement? Links to anything that would allow me to understand your view will be very much appreciated.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#112

Post by pstuart »

mydongle wrote: post #93
pstuart wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen anything to that effect. Care to share?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-lette... https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-hea... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/1288-public-health-pro...

[flagged]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#113

Post by mydongle »

It's tragic watching this play out. 4chan's /pol/ amongst many other racists love it. They don't have to do anything while everything implodes. They see Covid-19 as a nothing burger, and health experts giving these protestors a pass vindicates their belief. But if Covid-19 is not a nothing burger, then these protests will end up with many black people and other minorities sick and possibly dead. People on the alt-right have mostly avoided doing anything and are telling their side not to engage. Because as far as they are concerned, right now it's just leftists burning their own leftist cities down.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#114

Post by mydongle »

pstuart wrote: post #112
mydongle wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-lette... https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-hea... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/1288-public-health-pro...

[flagged]

Nuance is not so important in this situation. The effect is that people have been effectively given a pass to disregard the virus, as long as they're "protesting". Look at the protests and all the riots, do you see social distancing happening? People are throwing punches out there my dude. It's chaos.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#115

Post by tobias3 »

We had large BLM demonstrations yesterday here in Germany. Demonstrators did not follow Corona virus rules (compared to e.g. fridays for future). If COVID-19 spreads in those circumstances (outside, mostly with masks, but close contact + chanting), this'll have been the last of those demonstrations here.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#116

Post by austincheney »

jdsully wrote: post #100
austincheney wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. Many people seem to believe this without any substance. Some people, as evidenced by comments here, only believe this when it aligns to their subjectively self valued concern. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly According to Wikipedia assembly is an example of a civil liberty. The preeminent doctrine on civil liberties is On Liberty . According to John Stuart Mill the greatest des…

It can certainly go too far, but if a system of government angers a majority of the population one has to consider who exactly it is serving.

In that case consider a historic example. What is more important Common Sense by Thomas Payne or the protest it directly inspired?

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Common_Sense

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#117

Post by newbie789 »

austincheney wrote: post #42
Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

I strongly disagree. Many people seem to believe this without any substance. Some people, as evidenced by comments here, only believe this when it aligns to their subjectively self valued concern. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly According to Wikipedia assembly is an example of a civil liberty. The preeminent doctrine on civil liberties is On Liberty . According to John Stuart Mill the greatest des…

I think a lot of people strongly believe things without substance, sometimes based on wikipedia and interpreting stuff written by people that died centuries before problems manifested in paradigms that would have been unimaginable to them.

I'm a fan of John Stuart Mill's writing, but having a memorable book title does not make a permanently relevant tome that applies to all of history backward and forward.

My understanding of assembly (no wikipedia reference here) is that it's a form of expression (which you also kind of said yourself).

Are saying that assembly isn't good or necessary for society? Or is this entire post specifically about the OP's word choice?

In either case, are you citing J. S. Mill as a form of "proof" for your assertion?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#118

Post by axguscbklp »

ribasushi wrote: post #111
axguscbklp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are the protests really founded on something significant? If they focused simply on police brutality regardless of race, that would be one thing, but the general narrative seems to be that there is a big problem of white-on-black violence in the form of cops. Now, there is such a problem, but this ignores the wider context that in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black…

> in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black violence In the interest of discourse, I am genuinely curious: how did you arrive at the quoted statement? Links to anything that would allow me to understand your view will be very much appreciated.

2018 FBI homicide statistics: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

514 black-on-white homicides, 234 white-on-black homicides.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#119

Post by aazaa »

> The virus has not mapped neatly onto American political narratives, either. While some questions remain about their accounting, Georgia and Florida—where leaders opened up early and residents seemed relatively defiant of public-health advice—have seen relatively flat numbers, while California, which took a more conservative approach, has seen cases grow. The state most poised for major trouble seems to be Arizona, where the outbreak is spreading very quickly. Not only is the state (which lifted its stay-at-home order on May 16) setting new records for positive tests and people in the hospital, but the percentage of tests that are coming back positive is also growing. So much for warm weather and sunshine alone stamping out viral transmission, as some had hoped: Phoenix saw only a single day’s high under 90 degrees during May. The state’s age demographics also haven’t played an obvious role: The state is slightly younger than the U.S. as a whole.

This may be the most striking thing at the moment. The pandemic isn't evenly distributed in the US. Several factors compound the problem, including:

1. the time between the enactment of policy and the consequences varies

2. there may be an underlying seasonal component that's modulating stats in certain states

3. states show varying degrees of commitment to complete, accurate reporting of test results and rigor

4. positivity rates (# positive results vs # of tests) are rarely, if ever reported so it's nearly impossible to assign weight to increases or decreases in cases/fatalities

Throw this all together and you get one big, fat mess. It's nearly impossible to figure out exactly what's happening with respect to viral spread or why. National-level efforts to track or contain the spread are weak at best.

We should all hope that point (2) is not a major factor in this. If it is, a bigger, badder sequel of the early spring, starting around fall seems inevitable.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#120

Post by mrcorona »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #97
thethethethe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? People denounced those protesters because they were protesting because many of them thought the virus was a hoax or because they couldn’t get a hair cut or buy lawn fertilizer. The current protests are addressing systemic racism black people have faced in America for hundreds of years an…

there is no difference to covid, it doesn't ask 'oh were you protesting the right thing?'

5 Plain clothed police officers break into your house and execute your wife or daughter in their bed, then say it was a mistake and walk away scott-free (no charges)...

Would you stay quiet and wait for the covid threat to die down before protesting or taking action?

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