Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

getpocket.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 88 posts

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#51

Post by dimitar »

To code or to work with computers (for example doing system administration or testing) is a work skill, and children and teenagers are much, much better at learning them than the essential theoretical subjects at school.

So, instead of turning programming in yet another rigorous and testable school subject, I think kids should be encouraged to make things regardless how bad they seem to be. Maybe not using BASIC, but some web design, but also how to fix common computing issues. Ideally they should be able to do an entry level IT job.

Historically teenagers and bigger children worked as apprentices or helped in the fields. In some communities, this is still essential to their survivor, but people who can afford for their kids not to work discount the boost to self-worth and the practicality of doing some work.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#52

Post by 4636760295 »

tartoran wrote: post #42
4636760295 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids need to learn things themselves and walk their own path. Sure you can guide them away from bad things, but there is too much hand holding and coddling of young people these days. One example is lining playgrounds with rubberized material, resulting in an increase in injuries. Another example is keeping kids away from peanuts which causes an increase in peanut allergies.

Ruberizing playgrounds leads to more injuries? Interesting, I didnt know that. Keeping kids who are not alergic to peanuts away from peanuts is stupid. I let mine eat everything but sugary things and junk foods. My nephew however is alergic to peanuts and was about to die once if it wasnt for an epipen at hand

The rubberizing thing is similar to the helmet effect with bicycles: injuries tend to increase when people wear helmets while riding bicycles, likely because they're more willing to take risks.

As far as peanuts go, it's out of my area of expertise but as I understand it there's an autoimmune response to the proteins in peanuts, and there's a link to people who don't have exposure to those proteins in their infancy.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#53

Post by paul_f »

fongitosous wrote: post #32
spacephysics wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good point. It also shows that those who are worried about everyone learning to code, and our job market subsequently becoming saturated, is rather a needless worry. Sure some saturation will occur, but furthering your point, just because most can read and write doesn’t mean they’ll all become professional writers.

what worries me is the code-monkey idea behind everyone can/need to code. I don't want coding to become the blue-collar skill of the next decade.

I hope you didn't mean this as elitist as it comes across. There's nothing wrong with blue-collar coding

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#54

Post by dimitar »

dimitar wrote: post #51

To code or to work with computers (for example doing system administration or testing) is a work skill, and children and teenagers are much, much better at learning them than the essential theoretical subjects at school. So, instead of turning programming in yet another rigorous and testable school subject, I think kids should be encouraged to make things regardless how bad they seem to be. Maybe not using BASIC, but…

I'm also thinking of those kids I've seen who can solve textbook programming problems at an early age, but cannot even setup their IDE.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#56

Post by flr03 »

I think there is a set of skills that are really worth learning early. When it actually makes a difference to be "native". Like learning a language, playing an instrument or technical sport like let's say skiing or swimming. I'm fluent in English now but will never sound like a native. I swim several time per week but I'll never be as efficient as if I started at 6. On another hand I started skiing at 4 and I've been doing great in this sport.

For coding, I think the author wants to emphazise the fact that the code syntax and the logic are different things. Syntax is easy to pick up at any age with a bit of perseverance. Kids can practice their analysis skills and logic at a young age but that doesn't require any coding.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#57

Post by watwatinthewat »

The argument seems to mostly boil down to this one part: "Coding books for kids present coding as a set of problems with “correct” solutions. And if your children can just master the syntax, they’ll be able to make things quickly and easily. But that is not the way programming works. Programming is messy. Programming is a mix of creativity and determination. Being a developer is about more than syntax, and certain skills can only be taught to the very young."

Isn't that true of most "adult" things taught to young children? Says you want to teach a sport, basketball. At a young age, all the kid is going to do at best is "master the syntax". That doesn't mean it isn't useful to start at an early age.

The author's argument can be applied to anything complex. You don't think kids "master the syntax first" learning math? Should we not start teaching math at a young age?

It seems the author is really just upset that anyone thinks coding is something simplistic to any degree.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#58

Post by asdf333 »

wcarss wrote: post #36

tl;dr: "Instead of teaching syntax, you should actually teach kids to problem solve, be curious, and care about quality! Because those are underlying skills with more value to programming and to life in general. But, also, most people should not become programmers. No comment on why." I'm torn between anger at the clickbaity title, agreement with and enjoyment of the majority of the article's valid work and spirit, a…

this isn’t really an explanation but some of the most talented programmers i knew at one of the top engineering schools in the world didn’t start programming until college. in contrast i have known some mediocre programmers who have been doing it a long time.

let’s contrast this to say classical music, if you don’t start before the age of 8, it is physicslly impossible to become a professional. your fingers will never move quickly enough. what about soccer? could you be a pro level player starting the sport in college? probably not.

this tells me that the skills to be a good programmer have less to do with programming and more to do with other stuff like being able to think clearly and reason about complicated things like math, problem solving and logic. those are things that don’t have to be taught using code and in many ways it feels to me like you need to learn syntax as a prerequisite to begin the intellectually challenging parts whereas you could just do it by studying math directly or building something with legos.

anecdotally most developers i know are not interested in teaching their young kids coding. the ones i see most interested in it are non technical parents. but of course this is not true across the board

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#59

Post by sz4kerto »

As a developer, my personal competitive advantage is that I understand humans quite well. Most of the devs I've seen were limited by their soft skills. Learning Javascript is trivial compared to acquiring soft skills that are necessary to be successful in most domains.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#60

Post by fit2rule »

I completely disagree. I've been programming since 1977, when I was 7 years old. My kids, now in their teens, have been coding since they were able to bang on one of my 8-bit machines, having a blast all the way to comprehension and understanding.

Oh, wait, yeah. Sorry. I have every computer I've ever hacked on, going back to '77.

Yeah, now I get it. DEFINITELY don't try to teach your kids to program computers with, say, a modern web stack or whatever..

Post reply on HN