Live data from Hacker News

I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

getpocket.com

31–40 of 88 posts

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#31
I got interested in coding when I started high school in 2001. When I discovered that several students were already somewhat proficient programmers, ostensibly because of parents who introduced it while they were young, it was a rude shock. It left me feeling behind some kind of curve.

I did become a software engineer later in life after a career change, but I wonder how a home environment where I could learn the basics would have changed my trajectory.

I take the author's point that the problem solving and creativity are more important than syntax. But you need comfort with syntax to get deeper into the ecosystem to stretch those muscles.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#32
post #7

I would, were I going to have kids. "while these products may teach kids specific coding languages, they actually have very little to do with the work of creating software." Yes, and learning to read has little to do with the dramatic structures of high literature, but without the one you're going to struggle to express the other. This article comes across as attention-seeking contrarianism.

That’s a good point. It also shows that those who are worried about everyone learning to code, and our job market subsequently becoming saturated, is rather a needless worry. Sure some saturation will occur, but furthering your point, just because most can read and write doesn’t mean they’ll all become professional writers.

what worries me is the code-monkey idea behind everyone can/need to code. I don't want coding to become the blue-collar skill of the next decade.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#36
tl;dr: "Instead of teaching syntax, you should actually teach kids to problem solve, be curious, and care about quality! Because those are underlying skills with more value to programming and to life in general.

But, also, most people should not become programmers. No comment on why."

I'm torn between anger at the clickbaity title, agreement with and enjoyment of the majority of the article's valid work and spirit, and acute annoyance at that last bit that shamelessly, sans evidence, recalls the clickbait premise that I originally wanted. The author pulled me slowly out of my disdain, and then shoved me back into it again right before leaving.

I often hear this idea echoed around my social network that most people should actually not learn to program. That it is not a literacy. That it isn't useful for your kids' minds or long term status or for society. But then I often find people slyly avoiding explanations as to why, like here, or merely asserting that the arts also have value (which isn't an exclusive claim!), or mumbling over some hoakum about learning styles and not everyone being capable of being a programmer.

Occasionally there's someone saying, "of course many people will program, but they won't be programmers. But the other things they do will require them to do programming", which is exactly how literacy works. I'm ready to agree with that idea, but it's often similarly wrapped in a "don't teach your kids to code!" label, which it seems antithetical to.

Does anyone seriously feel that developing the skills involved in writing code (and learning to be comfortable using code and computer tools to solve problems) isn't broadly applicable to people's lives at this point? I'd love to hear and discuss a qualified explanation for that belief, and I've been looking, but (as with this article) it seems not to be found where advertised.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#37

While I have no interest in breeding, if I did have kids I would let them choose their own interests rather than forcing mine onto them.

Kids find what they like and don't like by being exposed to things. Giving your kid a book is not forcing your interests on them, its okay if they don't like it. I think the author is expressing concern over feeling pressured to teach his young child coding. I don't think its probably that helpful to teach young kids syntax. My 10 year old recently started playing with Scratch on her own, bought herself a book about it at a book fair. I think the Scratch approach of putting together the steps you need to accomplish something is much better training than learning specific functions or where to put a semicolon.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#38
I gotta say, I had this same thought twenty years ago when my kiddos were pre-teens. Be creative! Make beautiful things! Don't haul up the data on the Xerox line like your old man! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDkmVo2fg4

Man, was I WRONG! What a MISTAKE. My spouse and I fouled up some lives by teaching that attitude.

My youngest wanted to do game dev. So she got Masters of Fine Art from an A school concentrating in 3D animation and motion capture. Now she doesn't make enough money to afford to live in a tiny apartment in the Bay Area exurbs working a full-time temp job for a big game dev outfit.

My oldest also went to a A art school for an MFA. Now she's an office administrator, almost forty, raising a family.

We're super-proud they don't have any debt. That took hard work. Still, there's no way they're going to have the opportunities my spouse and I had.

Who has the labor market power to earn enough to feed their families in the overpriced coastal areas? Engineers, lawyers, executives.

My mom was a classicist and really wanted me to spend a lot of time learning to read the ancient greats in Latin and Greek. But she didn't push me too hard; she let me make my own choices. That was good for me.

Please, please, young parents, be careful about how your ideologies affect the small people in your care. Don't let your ideologies make them think their choices are limited.

Seriously.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in the job market since 1996. While it didn’t pay the astronomical salaries that it does now, it consistently has paid a nice wage. What trends do you see that would lessen the need for software development in the next 20 years?

I see a trend thats pushing away older experienced programmers just to replace them with young ones.

I’m 45. I haven’t seen it. I’m getting just as many offers and doors open now as I have since 1996. I’m very focused on keeping a network warm and keeping my resume buzzword compliant.

Re: I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You (2018)

#40
post #7

I would, were I going to have kids. "while these products may teach kids specific coding languages, they actually have very little to do with the work of creating software." Yes, and learning to read has little to do with the dramatic structures of high literature, but without the one you're going to struggle to express the other. This article comes across as attention-seeking contrarianism.

I think the author is pointing at the crop of "learn programming" classes offered for elementary kids under the guise of STEM. And I have seen parents spending sleepless nights because their kid cannot and the neigbor kid can program in Python in Grade 4. Which I believe, is utterly pointless, and does not define how good/bad your kid will be at programming in adult-life. I think some this myth stems of the stories of great programmers whose parents got them an Atari at the age of 4 and so on. I think they are a rare exception, than the norm.

I can relate to this article -- my daughter went through programming courses in school (Bay Area public schools are full of these crazy STEM courses), but she did not understand a thing of constructing software. All they learnt was a bunch of syntax, and a bunch of solved problems. I think they will do much better if the STEM courses focus less on a "programming language" and more on "problem solving and thinking software" (I just made this up now). :-)

Post reply on HN