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Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

joeroussos.org

11–20 of 91 posts

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#11

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_hierarchy "strict accountability – those who issue orders are responsible for the consequences, not those who carry them out" If you are a subordinate and you disagreed with a certain order, either because you think the order is stupid or morally wrong, you can (and should) still carry out the order to the best of your ability. If the emotional distress caused by a contradi…

Also see the movie, A Few Good Men

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#12
Many countries still have military conscription, so sometimes enlisted soldiers do not really have a choice: you are either drafted with national pride, or drafted feeling moral guilt, or jailed for dodging and then maybe still drafted afterwards into a penal batallion. Or you break and bend the law.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#13

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_hierarchy "strict accountability – those who issue orders are responsible for the consequences, not those who carry them out" If you are a subordinate and you disagreed with a certain order, either because you think the order is stupid or morally wrong, you can (and should) still carry out the order to the best of your ability. If the emotional distress caused by a contradi…

This line of thinking does not apply to the US military. If you have reason to believe an order is illegal, or even should have known, you are just as guilty of the illegal act as the person giving an order. That being said don’t execute an illegal order hoping chain of command will qualify as a valid legal defense.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#14

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_hierarchy "strict accountability – those who issue orders are responsible for the consequences, not those who carry them out" If you are a subordinate and you disagreed with a certain order, either because you think the order is stupid or morally wrong, you can (and should) still carry out the order to the best of your ability. If the emotional distress caused by a contradi…

This line of thinking does not apply to the US military. If you have reason to believe an order is illegal, or even should have known, you are just as guilty of the illegal act as the person giving an order. That being said don’t execute an illegal order hoping chain of command will qualify as a valid legal defense.

I did mention that though but if you think it is stupid and/or immoral, the right thing to do is to still carry it out.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of thinking does not apply to the US military. If you have reason to believe an order is illegal, or even should have known, you are just as guilty of the illegal act as the person giving an order. That being said don’t execute an illegal order hoping chain of command will qualify as a valid legal defense.

I did mention that though but if you think it is stupid and/or immoral, the right thing to do is to still carry it out.

Why? What is meant by "right thing to do"?

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#16
> Gadaffi... South Africa...

What about the US federal government? Banks and investment firms? The oil companies? Blackwater, Haliburton, Bechtel and the like? Mineral extraction companies? Or perhaps - Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft et al, who spy on you all the time?

> There are obvious and important differences between war and management consulting. The first straightforwardly involves killing people, the latter does not.

Well, a lot of the companies I mentioned above delegate the killing of people to other elements. E.g the government and its military forces.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#17
post #12

Many countries still have military conscription, so sometimes enlisted soldiers do not really have a choice: you are either drafted with national pride, or drafted feeling moral guilt, or jailed for dodging and then maybe still drafted afterwards into a penal batallion. Or you break and bend the law.

Very important point. It should be considered a cornerstone of democracy to have only voluntary drafting -- just like a free press and general elections.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#18

> So here is an important moral question: is knowledge of moral risk (in the sense of a risk that I will do something bad, unknowingly) a reason to hold me morally culpable? I would say yes. Let’s make an analogy to physical risk: suppose you are a shift manager who is aware of general and persistent safety issues at a factory (by hearing about mutilations and deaths), even if you don’t know any of the specifics. For…

> Engaging with the question itself is assuming responsibility.

This is a dangerous sentiment as it incentivizes people to not engage with such questions in order to avoid the accompanying duty, which cannot be known before considering the question.

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#19
post #5
post #2

It is interesting that he brings up the assistance of helping Saif Qaddafi getting a PHD as morally flawed. The destruction of Libya led Africas richest country - with free education and healthcare - to become a failed state with black slave markets and human trafficking. Is everyone that voted for Obama also complicit in the human misery/genocides in Libya ( or insert Somalia, Yemen, South Sudan, Chad etc.)? https:/…

Nah. Voting isn't some divine representation of the will of the people; it's a feedback mechanism to push the governing apparatus toward goals that are beneficial to the voting population, however halting or misguided the approach is. Some people voted for McCain over Obama; does that give them the moral, anti-war high ground, since Obama killed Libyans and McCain never had a chance to? Not at all. Nor does throwing…

Voting isn't a moral activity, this is a really, really strange proposition that I am not sure I can accept.

Don't morals factor into deciding what goals are beneficial to the population?

(I'm not even sure I agree with the proposition that voting pushes the governing apparatus this way in many democracies including the USA)

Re: Deciding to do morally risky work (2019)

#20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did mention that though but if you think it is stupid and/or immoral, the right thing to do is to still carry it out.

Why? What is meant by "right thing to do"?

All human beings are equal. There is no supreme arbiter of human argument. When you need to organize with fellow human beings, you then need to give people the benefit of a doubt after achieving certain qualifications to give orders according to their own arguments and views. On the other hand, when you achieve those qualifications, others will have to give you the benefit of a doubt to give orders according to your own arguments, views and values.
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