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Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

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Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#71
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, legal documents are like code - you have to read them exactly as they are worded. They may use complex grammar and obscure vocabulary, but slow down, read every word and pretend it is code. There are no extra words, every "or" and "and" really is a boolean operator that impacts how to interpret a sentence. If you are a coder, extracting an accurate meaning from legalese should come naturally. Just sl…

I've been told by at least two patent lawyers that "and" and "or" are essentially synonymous. If you want to specify "xor" it's good to say "either a foo or a bar but not both a foo and a bar". But why be so specific? "One or both of a foo and a bar" could have broader coverage, presents the opportunity to mislead the competition, and (IANAL) seems to be just as sound even if "both" is actually infeasible.

Claim language such as "determining foo based on x, y, and y" is leaving the door open for a judge to interpret the limitation as requiring "x, y, AND z"

Better language (assuming it is how the thing works) is: "determining foo based on one or more of x, y, or z"

The strange language in claims (and patents in general) is a response to litigation. Good patent prosecutors (the patent attorneys that draft patents) watch court cases and adjust their claim language accordingly.

Good patent litigators try to tear up or dissect the claim language (as well as everything else...). So patent prosecutors should draft with an eye toward litigation and include language that inoculates a patent from common or obvious attacks.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#72
post #40

I think that the patents in it's current state (in the US at least and in the software area in particular) are outlived their usefulness. It was an artificial construct to begin with with the goal that small people can invent things and rip some benefits. Now it is a large scale tactical and strategic weapon amassed by large corporations. If followed to the letter small person/company can not do f..k all without brea…

Welcome to the big leagues. Patents are big part of every mature industry. Software isn't special.

You should see how fierce the patent wars are in the automobile industry, medical devices, electronics, materials science, adhesives, brake pads, throttle cables, fasteners, tooling, construction/building materials, to name a few.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#73
post #21
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chances are they obtained about 500 patents of similar reach per year. This is an arms race, with companies aiming to be able to countersue any patent infringement with hundreds of patent infringements the other way.

You're completely correct. Every big software company encourages their developers to apply for patents on everything they can think of, using cash bonuses and recognition. It's absolutely an arms race, because any company that didn't do this would be standing naked if a patent troll decided to sue. It really demonstrates the ridiculousness of the patent system and how far away it is from the original intentions (even…

Patent trolls don't produce anything that can infringe on a patent, so having a patent portfolio does nothing to protect against them.

A patent portfolio helps when a competitor claims their patent is being infringed. A company with a large patent portfolio can cross-license patents and avoid a lawsuit.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#74
post #4
post #2

This is comical. It patents the entire system from HTML forms to get the input to prepare the SQL query, to server sending data as formatted HTML back to client. This has been the bread and butter of PHP for two decades. I'm glad no one tried to enforce this to take away like 99% of the internet.

I wouldn't hold up in any serious suit, but it could be a good patent trolling weapon. Let's hope that when IBM inevitably goes the way of the cuckoo, this does not fall in the wrong hand and/or patent reform has happened by them (fat chance imho).

Irrelevant nitpick: I believe the saying you’re after is ”going the way of the dodo”, referring to the fact that dodo birds are extinct. Cuckoos are still extant.

Although you can also ”go cuckoo”, as in crazy.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#75
post #22

IBM pays their company employees to file patents. It is also one of the key factor for promotions. That's why you can see lot's of stupid patents out there in IBM name.

Every big software company does this. It's a ridiculous arms race, but you have to play or risk getting sued to oblivion by a patent troll.

Why don't big companies lobby for better patent laws then?

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#76
post #40

I think that the patents in it's current state (in the US at least and in the software area in particular) are outlived their usefulness. It was an artificial construct to begin with with the goal that small people can invent things and rip some benefits. Now it is a large scale tactical and strategic weapon amassed by large corporations. If followed to the letter small person/company can not do f..k all without brea…

Welcome to the big leagues. Patents are big part of every mature industry. Software isn't special. You should see how fierce the patent wars are in the automobile industry, medical devices, electronics, materials science, adhesives, brake pads, throttle cables, fasteners, tooling, construction/building materials, to name a few.

> Software isn't special.

The difference is that software is special compared to electronics, chemistry etc etc You can't be vague in those fields but in software implementations you can as much as you want. Maybe we should start issuing patents in hairdressing as well.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#77
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the big leagues. Patents are big part of every mature industry. Software isn't special. You should see how fierce the patent wars are in the automobile industry, medical devices, electronics, materials science, adhesives, brake pads, throttle cables, fasteners, tooling, construction/building materials, to name a few.

> Software isn't special. The difference is that software is special compared to electronics, chemistry etc etc You can't be vague in those fields but in software implementations you can as much as you want. Maybe we should start issuing patents in hairdressing as well.

You need enough definiteness in a disclosure to enable someone of ordinary skill in the art make the invention.

The specific data structures, programming languages, program/application architecture, are generally unimportant (unless they are the invention).

Gadget patents are the same way. They don't have to claim particular fasteners, coatings, materials, dimensions, or the like, unless they are necessary for the invention.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#78
post #75
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every big software company does this. It's a ridiculous arms race, but you have to play or risk getting sued to oblivion by a patent troll.

Why don't big companies lobby for better patent laws then?

They did lobby for better patent laws--that's how we got first-to-file and inter-partes review.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#79
post #75
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every big software company does this. It's a ridiculous arms race, but you have to play or risk getting sued to oblivion by a patent troll.

Why don't big companies lobby for better patent laws then?

I think because a) this is a huge additional investment b) they still have to invest in patents until (if) the system changes c) then the whole playing field is changed, and that's also a huge risk

Status quo is almost always safer if you're one of the biggest.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#80
post #75
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every big software company does this. It's a ridiculous arms race, but you have to play or risk getting sued to oblivion by a patent troll.

Why don't big companies lobby for better patent laws then?

Why would they want to do that? They have the money to play the game... it's startups and disrupters to their business who don't have the money to do it. When the day comes when a startup challenges one of these companies, one of two things will happen: they'll be forced to sell or they'll get sued to oblivion. Just the threat alone keeps startups from operating in their space and getting investors, etc. These companies don't want to compete with you.
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