Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#271

Post by type0 » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

adambyrtek wrote: post #28

fxtentacle wrote: post #17

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time. Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first…

I agree in principle, but it's worth pointing out that Snap is designed for end-user applications, so it's unlikely to be used on a server or in a Docker image built for deployment.

> but it's worth pointing out that Snap is designed for end-user applications

They started building it for IoT, whereas Flatpaks were designed for the desktop from beginning.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#272

Post by dahfizz » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #222

dahfizz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same Fedora install on my laptop for years, at least 4 versions. Never any of the problems you described. Fedora was also the only thing that worked on my new laptop, because every other distro runs a super old kernel. I'm a super happy Fedora user :)

I ran fedora from version 1 though I think version 14ish It's entirely possible its better now than it was.

Fedora 14 is 10 years old. Linux in general has gotten so much better in that time IMO

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#273

Post by jiofih » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

vermilingua wrote: post #205

Sevaris wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you're fucking joking. You can't be serious. This ties into one of my other comments about how god awful the documentation is for beginners (or even intermediates) after scrapping the beginner's guide. > Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions... Yes. And that's fucking fine. Arch Linux isn't opinionated. Which is great, but not what I (or others) might be looking for in a distro.

On the other hand, it’s the RTFM approach of Arch documentation that forced me and others I know to actually learn Linux, and step up from beginner use to power user status. Sure, if you want to remain a Linux beginner forever, the Arch docs would be terrible.

This whole thread started from “ I just want an OS, not a hobby”. So, no thanks.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#274

Post by abstractbarista » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

Darmody wrote: post #9

I can understand Canonical pushing for snaps. It's their product and they want it to succeed. That said I hate their dirty ways. I find it even morally wrong. How can "sudo apt install chromium-browser" not install the apt package but install instead a snap? How I, as a user and also as a professional, trust Ubuntu if when I use their package manager I'm being tricked? I don't use Windows for a reason, more than one…

Yikes, that's horrible.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#275

Post by pmontra » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #264

pmontra wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm planning to upgrade so you have my attention. What did 20 change to break your workflow?

Replacing the chromium apt with an empty package installing a random self-updating snap. In other words, pinning a specific chromium version, for example for selenium automation, is now broken.

I didn't think about that. Thanks.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#276

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #272

michaelmrose wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran fedora from version 1 though I think version 14ish It's entirely possible its better now than it was.

Fedora 14 is 10 years old. Linux in general has gotten so much better in that time IMO

I didn't fully give up on the red hat ecosystem for years after that I even ran stella based on centos and rebuilt rpms to have software that wasn't packaged for same.

This is even still a thing based on Centos 7 and running gnome 2 not a gnome 2 derivative but actual gnome 2.

I agree what you say is presumably so however Ubuntu LTS/Debian or arch update cadence, pick one, are still better than updating every 6 months for most users. If I want really up to date software I would like to have it now not months from now. If I have to wait I would like actual stability.

Fedora is optimized for testing new tech to be rolled out by red hat not for usage by end users. As it stands you can benefit from the sweat of their brow while not actually using fedora by using something that actually is.

Also note that if you install software from additional repos updates between versions may not be as smooth between versions. If you don't package choice is certainly going to be substantially inferior compared to arch or ubuntu.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#277

Post by volongoto » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

divbzero wrote: post #216

dima55 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

Would Debian be your recommendation for servers as well?

In case you are unsure what the sibling means: Debian is primarily a server OS (one of the best). When people talk about Debian, they mostly think about server use.

(That's why your question sounds like a joke :) Or maybe it was a joke?)

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#278

Post by pkulak » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

Sevaris wrote: post #126

pkulak wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of Arch over anything else is 100% in the installation. After that, it IS Manjaro except you are using the real thing, not a derivative. I've had to trouble shoot Arch far less than any other distro I've ever used.

My main problem with Arch is that there's rarely a point where I feel like I've finished installing. There's always something missing or something not configured right. Shit, dialog still isn't a default package in 2020, which you need to use wifi-menu during the install process. So if you happen to forget to install that (and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation), you're going to have to reboot into the…

Hmm... not my experience. Not discounting yours at all, I promise, but I have a 20-package one-liner install script that I run on new systems and it's ready to go. After I pull in my dotfiles and symlink them into place, I can't even tell it's a different install.

Arch is pretty much exactly as opinionated as I want a distro to be. Hell, there are LOTS of folks who think it's too opinionated for forcing you to use systemd. The real installer is pacstrap, and it installs, I think, 300+ megs of stuff. That's all someone's opinion. And keeping it to just 300 megs is an opinion too, I guess.

EDIT: Okay, re-reading, and it sounds like installing 20 packages is a pain. But when I used Ubuntu I had to go through way more to get it how I liked it (and OS X is a nightmare 2 hours of clicking menus and buttons, and installing from web pages). I don't remember all of it now, but I had to get rid of the weird mini-vim and replace it with neovim, strip out Libre Office (nothing against them, I just have no use and it's a pain to wait for the giant updates all the time), my printer drivers were on a webpage somewhere, not the repo like Arch, etc. Ubuntu is WAY more work for me to get set up with just because removing and replacing is more work than installing.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#279

Post by pkulak » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

jiofih wrote: post #273

vermilingua wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it’s the RTFM approach of Arch documentation that forced me and others I know to actually learn Linux, and step up from beginner use to power user status. Sure, if you want to remain a Linux beginner forever, the Arch docs would be terrible.

This whole thread started from “ I just want an OS, not a hobby”. So, no thanks.

Well, my point was just that yes, Arch takes longer to install, and requires work, but it doesn't become a "hobby" _after_ that. Then people got into a flame war about how hard it is to install, which it is, and I freely acknowledge. :shrug:

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#280

Post by freedomben » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

jimhefferon wrote: post #15

Darmody wrote: post #9

I can understand Canonical pushing for snaps. It's their product and they want it to succeed. That said I hate their dirty ways. I find it even morally wrong. How can "sudo apt install chromium-browser" not install the apt package but install instead a snap? How I, as a user and also as a professional, trust Ubuntu if when I use their package manager I'm being tricked? I don't use Windows for a reason, more than one…

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

I highly recommend looking at Fedora. I used Ubuntu for years and put up with obnoxious things. I took a job where the deployment target was RHEL so most devs used Fedora. There was a bit to learn (such as apt v. yum) but overall thinks pretty much "just work" if you are using Fedora Workstation. If you don't want Gnome there are spins available and most are pretty solid, but if you really want a "just works" go with the official Workstation.