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Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

manning.com

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Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#31
post #14
post #7

Just a word.. not that it is really relevant but I wanted to share this with fellow hackers. To encourage the Clojure community/language, I've pre-ordered the book Joy of Clojure on amazon. On the book's website, it is clearly stated that you also get a free pdf of the book before the release date . So, I was pretty enthusiastic about starting to read the book. But then, I find out that you only get the pdf if you or…

And a funny fact: For both of my comments, the score keep oscillating from +5 to -4. Which doesn't talk a lot because, if it continues like that, at the end, I will probably only have ~1 which won't give any clues about the opinion on HN-users. (i.e. people don't care about it vs half agree / half disagree!)

I am guessing that this is because you are off-topic, writing about the publisher which doesn't seem to be the topic of the OP.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#32
post #7

Just a word.. not that it is really relevant but I wanted to share this with fellow hackers. To encourage the Clojure community/language, I've pre-ordered the book Joy of Clojure on amazon. On the book's website, it is clearly stated that you also get a free pdf of the book before the release date . So, I was pretty enthusiastic about starting to read the book. But then, I find out that you only get the pdf if you or…

You gave a significant chunk of their profit to Amazon; it would be nice if they still gave you the PDF (which is the bonus for ordering directly from them), but not doing so is just "not nice", not rage-worthy. If you really wanted it, you could have cancelled your Amazon order and placed your order with manning...

"You gave a significant chunk of their profit to Amazon" Are you implying this gives Manning reason for the disdain they showed him? From the rough translation it seems disdainful. He/she is a customer regardless of whatever vehicle (Amazon) he/she uses.

Personally, they should work with you to remedy this situation through various steps. The first should be try to cancel your amazon order and place it through Manning. If that doesn't work, then ...

You have every right to be angry at your bad customer service experience.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yegge has since admitted that NBL was Javascript. Clojure hits the sweet spot between Yegge's "JVM languages shall inherit the earth" rhetoric in the fabulous "Rhinos and Tigers" talk and his longstanding fondness for Lisp. Clojure will probably never eclipse JS in mindshare even if it is a wonderful language. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/06/rhinos-and-tigers.ht...

> Yegge has since admitted that NBL was Javascript. Not really, no. I work with Steve, and he's always been saddened that nobody really understood that the language he describes in his NBL article doesn't exist. He was hoping that someone would invent it.

During his OSCON 2007 talk, Steve does say that "NBL" is JavaScript 2. Watch http://blip.tv/file/319044/ around the 24:40m mark. Then again, I don't know what's his opinion at press-time.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#34
post #7

Just a word.. not that it is really relevant but I wanted to share this with fellow hackers. To encourage the Clojure community/language, I've pre-ordered the book Joy of Clojure on amazon. On the book's website, it is clearly stated that you also get a free pdf of the book before the release date . So, I was pretty enthusiastic about starting to read the book. But then, I find out that you only get the pdf if you or…

Yes, you're over-reacting. Your post sounds spiteful, and your threat of bad publicity sounds more like revenge than warning your fellow consumers. The way I see it, it would've been nice of them to give you a free MEAP copy, but it was well within their rights to refuse. Similarly, it's well within your rights to write a nasty blog post about how Manning is a bunch of meanies, but it'd be nice if you let it go, admitted that you made a mistake and got on with your life. It doesn't seem to me like there's anything to be gained by taking the low road here, even if you feel that it would be fair.

I have a story that starts similarly to yours, but ends very differently. I discovered "The Joy of Clojure" from a post here on HN, and after some consideration, I decided to pre-order. I was familiar with Amazon, but not with Manning, so I checked them out a little. I read their page about MEAPs and preview releases and really liked what I saw, so I pre-ordered the e-book copy from them directly, got my MEAP copy immediately and started reading. Since then, I've purchased/pre-ordered a half dozen other titles from them (frequently on steep discount thanks to their daily deals and newsletter sales) and they've become my go-to publisher for tech e-books when O'Reilly doesn't have what I'm looking for. I can't help but feel that my life would be ever-so-slightly poorer if I had had a bad experience with them right off the bat and decided to avoid them in the future.

Regardless of which path you decide to take, I hope that you enjoy reading the book. As someone who's fairly new to Clojure and functional programming, I've found it to be a great way to get deeper into the language as well as expand my horizons by exploring concepts like laziness and immutability that I don't see often enough as a Python programmer. Happy reading!

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#35
post #7

Just a word.. not that it is really relevant but I wanted to share this with fellow hackers. To encourage the Clojure community/language, I've pre-ordered the book Joy of Clojure on amazon. On the book's website, it is clearly stated that you also get a free pdf of the book before the release date . So, I was pretty enthusiastic about starting to read the book. But then, I find out that you only get the pdf if you or…

You gave a significant chunk of their profit to Amazon; it would be nice if they still gave you the PDF (which is the bonus for ordering directly from them), but not doing so is just "not nice", not rage-worthy. If you really wanted it, you could have cancelled your Amazon order and placed your order with manning...

[deleted]

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#36
post #7

Just a word.. not that it is really relevant but I wanted to share this with fellow hackers. To encourage the Clojure community/language, I've pre-ordered the book Joy of Clojure on amazon. On the book's website, it is clearly stated that you also get a free pdf of the book before the release date . So, I was pretty enthusiastic about starting to read the book. But then, I find out that you only get the pdf if you or…

The March 14 google cache of JoyofClojure.com says "can be preordered [link to the Manning preorder page with explanation of MEAP], which gives you access to the entire book as a PDF now".

The current page has been amended to say "can now be pre-ordered from Manning [link to the same MEAP purchase page], which gives you access to the entire book as a PDF now".

It looks like you helped them solve the "user reads about the preorder bonus and then chooses not to click on the nearby purchase link; instead bounces to Amazon, buys the book for half price, and then comes back asking for the PDF later" edge case.

They could certainly have just given you a copy of the PDF though. Probably not worth the hassle for Manning to argue the point.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#37
It would be nice, when there is a thread on Clojure, if at least one person chimed in and gave an example of a problem where this lisp dialect on JVM helped them to solve a problem faster than using an existing language, like Python, C#, Java, or whatever.

"Drinking through a fire hose", "understanding corner cases", and such are just euphemisms. Where's the beef?

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#38

It would be nice, when there is a thread on Clojure, if at least one person chimed in and gave an example of a problem where this lisp dialect on JVM helped them to solve a problem faster than using an existing language, like Python, C#, Java, or whatever. "Drinking through a fire hose", "understanding corner cases", and such are just euphemisms. Where's the beef?

in the book.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of thumb would be to fill in the implied verb and see which one makes sense. "So nobody could be more surprised than I was that a Lisp dialect ..." "So nobody could be more surprised than me was that a Lisp dialect ..." Then it becomes clear that "I" is correct.

> Then it becomes clear that "I" is correct. No, it's not. Your sentences are correct, though, but you altered them from the original by adding a verb, thereby requiring the presence of a subject. The original sentence doesn't have a verb, therefore they need the object form. In other words: "You're stronger than I am" "You're stronger than me" This last sentence is the form used in the article.

Sigh. English grammar is hard. The word "than" is a conjunction (like "and"), but it can also be used prepositionally. Your second sentence is more colloquial American English, and it's not wrong, but it's also not wrong to keep the nominative case ("I"), as in your first example. If the verb in the subordinate clause is the same as in the main clause, it can be assumed.

tl;dr Being a grammar nazi is a mug's game.

Re: Steve Yegge's foreword to Joy of Clojure

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yegge has since admitted that NBL was Javascript. Clojure hits the sweet spot between Yegge's "JVM languages shall inherit the earth" rhetoric in the fabulous "Rhinos and Tigers" talk and his longstanding fondness for Lisp. Clojure will probably never eclipse JS in mindshare even if it is a wonderful language. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/06/rhinos-and-tigers.ht...

> Yegge has since admitted that NBL was Javascript. Not really, no. I work with Steve, and he's always been saddened that nobody really understood that the language he describes in his NBL article doesn't exist. He was hoping that someone would invent it.

"NBL is JavaScript 2 / EcmaScript 4."

http://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/

Of course ES4 was scuttled so I guess you're right. It can still be created.

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