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Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

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Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#21
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already expired, so no danger at all.

Chances are they obtained about 500 patents of similar reach per year. This is an arms race, with companies aiming to be able to countersue any patent infringement with hundreds of patent infringements the other way.

You're completely correct. Every big software company encourages their developers to apply for patents on everything they can think of, using cash bonuses and recognition. It's absolutely an arms race, because any company that didn't do this would be standing naked if a patent troll decided to sue. It really demonstrates the ridiculousness of the patent system and how far away it is from the original intentions (even assuming those original intentions are worthwhile, which is dubious).

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#22

IBM pays their company employees to file patents. It is also one of the key factor for promotions. That's why you can see lot's of stupid patents out there in IBM name.

Every big software company does this. It's a ridiculous arms race, but you have to play or risk getting sued to oblivion by a patent troll.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#23

IBM pays their company employees to file patents. It is also one of the key factor for promotions. That's why you can see lot's of stupid patents out there in IBM name.

Nokia did (and probably still does) this as well, plus it gives inventor a share in revenue generated by the patented invention. Some ex-colleagues had made a small fortune out of this back in heydays. No wonder Nokia still holds so much important patents.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important bit is the claims. However, you still have to know the legalese codewords. Every word has a very specific definition. For example, "a plurality of things" explicitly excludes from the claim an implementation where only one "thing" is used. NAL, but something a patent attorney explained to me once.

Yep, terminology in legal documents can be quite misleading when interpreted as colloquial language. Something to keep in mind when reading any Legalese.

On the contrary, legal documents are like code - you have to read them exactly as they are worded. They may use complex grammar and obscure vocabulary, but slow down, read every word and pretend it is code. There are no extra words, every "or" and "and" really is a boolean operator that impacts how to interpret a sentence.

If you are a coder, extracting an accurate meaning from legalese should come naturally. Just slow the flippety-flop down, stop trying to read it like a book, and instead read it like you are a compiler.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#26
post #3

I never understand where patents start and end with the bit they claim to be new. Where is that in the patent document? In this case they’re talking about executing sql and rendering as html. Ok. Fine. Phpmyadmin was already doing that in 1998. But they also talk about these macro files that you’re executing by substituting variables into them. As that the new thing? Are these just stored procedures? I feel like we w…

This wikipedia section is a good place to start seeing how it works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_claim#Basic_types_and_c...

What I remember from law school is: let's say you're drafting a patent, and you want it to cover as much as possible without getting invalidated by prior art. So you're going to write some claims, and each claim can stand or fall on its own (each claim could be rejected by the patent office, or invalidated later because of prior art, without invalidating the more specific claims). So first you'll write a series of independent claims, and those will each be as broad as you hope you can get away with ("it's HTML on a computer!"). Having the broad independent claims stand is your best case scenario, because that makes it hard for competitors to work around your patent. But then for each independent claim you'll add dependent claims, which narrow down what you're claiming ("OK, it's HTML on a computer with foo," "OK, it's HTML on a computer with foo and bar"). That's your fallback scenario: maybe "HTML on a computer" gets rejected, and "HTML on a computer with foo" gets rejected, but "HTML on a computer with foo and bar" is original enough to make it through, so you still end up owning something of value. But maybe now that your broad claims are gone, your competitors can avoid your patent by doing "HTML with foo and baz" to accomplish the same thing.

So that's how the game theory works: you're basically leaving money on the table if you don't include some super broad claims at the top. Doesn't cost you anything if those ones don't stick. So we can't just read a patent and assume it actually protects every single broad claim -- but we can't assume it doesn't, either. We won't find out for sure which (if any) claims are actually valid unless there's a lawsuit and a judge or jury has to pick through the prior art and decide whether there are claims in there that are narrow enough to be original.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#28
How does one developing a product find out if they are infringing a patent? Apart from the Apple/Samsung patent battle few years ago and to an extent Google/Oracle battle, I don’t remember anything in the tech space leveraging this.

Is there a list of companies that got screwed by giant companies because they unknowingly infringed a patent?

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patent application was in 1995 (the patent is expired now). Like a lot of (even most of) IBM's generalizable patents, it is and was defensive. (Non-obviousness had gone out the window long before this, and they'd already been bitten by trolls. Basically, they patented everything that wasn't already patented by anyone just to avoid infringement suits. To my knowledge, they never actively protected anything that sh…

IBM is alleged to have have used dubious parents very aggressively back in the day: https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html > As the Big Blue crew looked on (without a flicker of emotion), my colleagues--all of whom had both engineering and law degrees--took to the whiteboard with markers, methodically illustrating, dissecting, and demolishing IBM's claims. We used phrases like: "You must be kidding," and "You…

That was an answering suit, as I recall - answering an equally ridiculous suit. The writer conveniently left that part out.

Re: Patent on displaying SQL data in HTML, granted to IBM in 1998

#30

How does one developing a product find out if they are infringing a patent? Apart from the Apple/Samsung patent battle few years ago and to an extent Google/Oracle battle, I don’t remember anything in the tech space leveraging this. Is there a list of companies that got screwed by giant companies because they unknowingly infringed a patent?

Look for "patent troll" articles. You will find a few dozen unique links just on this website.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

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