Why I Use Suckless Tools • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#31

Post by jck » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:51 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #30

Macha wrote: post #4

I get that people enjoy very minimalist computer experiences, but startup time is hardly that different between these programs and other slightly more ergonomic programs which offer conveniences like a config file. If you look at my startup time for my system it goes something like this: 10s - waiting for monitor to wake up to pick OS at dual boot menu 15s - typing disk encryption password 15s - system uses disk encr…

I don't see why you're focusing on speed (does the author even mention it? I skimmed TFA and didn't find it mentioned). Less bloat, simpler code means fewer bugs and it means that it's easy for a hacker/power user to dig into the code to understand and modify it, that 's the killer feature. After one hour poking into DWM I understood how it worked and how I could modify it to fit my needs exactly. I use a bunch of su…

Doesn't everything you're saying also apply to most tiling window managers? i3, bspwm etc

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#32

Post by ssb1 » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:51 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #25

xiwenc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stronger yet I rarely reboot my systems. Either they run 24/7 or I put them to sleep. There’s definitely good use for these optimized tools. Especially on old systems with low resources and slow CPU’s. I generally like the simplicity of suckless tools. dmenu together with i3 is a nice duo.

You have working sleep? Man I'm so jealous.

I've had working sleep since at least 2010 on ThinkPads and Dell XPS, Ubuntu and now Mint.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#33

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:51 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #30

Macha wrote: post #4

I get that people enjoy very minimalist computer experiences, but startup time is hardly that different between these programs and other slightly more ergonomic programs which offer conveniences like a config file. If you look at my startup time for my system it goes something like this: 10s - waiting for monitor to wake up to pick OS at dual boot menu 15s - typing disk encryption password 15s - system uses disk encr…

I don't see why you're focusing on speed (does the author even mention it? I skimmed TFA and didn't find it mentioned). Less bloat, simpler code means fewer bugs and it means that it's easy for a hacker/power user to dig into the code to understand and modify it, that 's the killer feature. After one hour poking into DWM I understood how it worked and how I could modify it to fit my needs exactly. I use a bunch of su…

> I don't see why you're focusing on speed (does the author even mention it? I skimmed TFA and didn't find it mentioned).

Second paragraph, second phrase.

> However as a side effect of suckless tools having their configuration baked into the executable at compile time, they start up instantly.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#34

Post by factorialboy » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:53 PM UTC

Back in the day, I used to distro hop, window manager hop and try to find the ever eluding "perfect" setup.

This lasted maybe 15 years. There was a sense of vanity in trying to be different yet spectacular.

Today I would tell my younger self that use what makes you productive. Even if it is the standard Windows or Mac OS environments.

R/unixporn is the nerds equivalent of shirtless beach dudes.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#35

Post by kamranjon » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

jdub wrote: post #22

As much as possible, I try to use software created by kind communities. The behaviours and attitudes in the "suckless" world come across as combative, exclusive, and unpleasant.

In what way are they combative or unpleasant? I've never experienced this. I enjoy the philosophy and opinionated approach they have to development. I setup an old thinkpad with openbsd and dwm and st and it all worked great and i learned some C along the way. I also used sent - their plaintext slide presentation tool to give a talk at work and it was a pretty cool way to put a presentation together quickly and focus on ideas. Anyway - I like their software and the opnionatedness makes it kinda fun to explore.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#36

Post by dilandau » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

jdub wrote: post #22

As much as possible, I try to use software created by kind communities. The behaviours and attitudes in the "suckless" world come across as combative, exclusive, and unpleasant.

Where kind in this sense means people who value the same performative morality as you do, and prefer virtue signalling over other qualities.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#37

Post by jbaber » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

I'm exactly the audience for this stuff. I've been using ratpoison as my WM for 15 years. But even it reads a simple config file.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#38

Post by tarruda » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

hhmc wrote: post #15

> If something goes wrong while using them, you can easily jump right into the code that implements them and nail down issues using basic debugger skills. I feel like we have very different conceptions of what 'easily' fixing a configuration issue looks like.

From the implementation POV, suckless software is very simple, and this makes it easier not only to tweak configuration (which is usually done C headers through defines), but also any kind of customization you might need.

Take their window manager dwm as an example. The codebase is only 2000 lines long, so any bug you find will have to be hidden in those 2000 lines. If you take a Sunday afternoon to study the code, you will very likely understand how every piece of the software works, at which point you will be in a position to fix anything you might find. You might even end up forking it and implementing your own window manager (AwesomeWM was originally forked from Dwm).

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#39

Post by ShinyRice » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

jdub wrote: post #22

As much as possible, I try to use software created by kind communities. The behaviours and attitudes in the "suckless" world come across as combative, exclusive, and unpleasant.

Being kind or not doesn't affect the quality of their software. If anything, I'd say they're strongly opinionated, something that seems to be in very short supply these days, and at times it's something to appreciate and welcome. If you want proof, such communities still draw an audience, just look at OpenBSD.

Re: Why I Use Suckless Tools

#40

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #4

I get that people enjoy very minimalist computer experiences, but startup time is hardly that different between these programs and other slightly more ergonomic programs which offer conveniences like a config file. If you look at my startup time for my system it goes something like this: 10s - waiting for monitor to wake up to pick OS at dual boot menu 15s - typing disk encryption password 15s - system uses disk encr…

[deleted]