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Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

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Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#271

Post by zarkov99 »

GloriousKoji wrote: post #69
Reedx wrote: post #3

Never thought we'd see wide support for book restriction or censorship again. Are people not reading history or considering the second order effects? Heck, you don't even have to go back that far. Just look how badly "official sources" handled Covid-19. For example, remember what the official word was, even despite being a self-contradiction: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. You may say that's a no…

This isn't censorship. Are we going to get mad at a children's book store refusing to carry explicit adult literature? Amazon has put in place publicly know and clearly defined policies for a specific and unique situation. This is not a slippery slope. The second they step out of that boundary there will be severe backlash.

I do not care what the children's book store owner decides to publish. But Amazon is a near monopoly. Different rules apply.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#272

Post by kelnos »

basic612 wrote: post #197
ncr wrote: post #175

The book is back on amazon as of now https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089P216NP/

I wonder if this will be noted on the easy blog or on hacker news. It seems that people are too caught up being outraged to notice. Comments made here three hours ago about the book now being available on Amazon are buried under piles of diatribes. Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good sanctimonious rant.

While I'm not an advocate of piles of diatribes, I think Amazon's ability and desire to censor is a topic still worthy of discussion. If Amazon is in the habit of censoring things it doesn't like unless it gets a lot of bad PR about it, that's a problem.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#273

Post by DenisM »

pen2l wrote: post #2

After a half hour long conversation with my neighbor last week of him trying to convince me that Bill Gates is behind coronavirus, please, for the love of our future, continue banning information that is blatantly put up on a bad faith basis. It's exhausting to see my mom and dad succumb to a new conspiracy every other day. I don't see how else we can curb this other than for the tech companies to start aggressively…

The necessity fo filter out bullshit, along with that of talking to other people or procure sustenance, is an integral part of the human condition.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#274

Post by ponker »

basic612 wrote: post #197
ncr wrote: post #175

The book is back on amazon as of now https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089P216NP/

I wonder if this will be noted on the easy blog or on hacker news. It seems that people are too caught up being outraged to notice. Comments made here three hours ago about the book now being available on Amazon are buried under piles of diatribes. Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good sanctimonious rant.

Amazon’s ban is a problem even if they reversed it due to publicity. It means that this is going on even when you don’t hear about it.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#275

Post by kelnos »

tzs wrote: post #193
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow...just wow. The only way to deal with people having bad ideas is censorship? Seriously? What about improving education, building functional (and trusted) institutions, and having more independent (non-profit driven) media? It really bothers me that there is a group of people begging for corporate overloads to control and think for the population. Its literally the opposite of everything this country stands for.

> What about improving education, building functional (and trusted) institutions, and having more independent (non-profit driven) media? They do not work, because the time and cost to create and widely disseminate falsehoods is much less than the time and cost to refute those falsehoods. See "Firehose of falsehood" [1], which is an apt name for what happens now thanks to the internet and social media greatly lowering…

> They do not work, because the time and cost to create and widely disseminate falsehoods is much less than the time and cost to refute those falsehoods.

It's not about countering falsehoods, it's about giving people the tools to think critically and not be duped by falsehoods in the first place.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#276

Post by rumanator »

Will_Parker wrote: post #146
dougmany wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least two of those links had nuanced reasons that matched the parent's remarks. One even literately had a three point explanation: * There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission * Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection * We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-ris…

> There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission It's a disease spread by exhaled droplets. How the heck could masks _not_ work? Why has common sense, as an acceptable way to obtain knowledge, died in the general public?

> It's a disease spread by exhaled droplets. How the heck could masks _not_ work?

You should really get some information on the topic you're discussing, because either you are oblivious to the point you're trying to argue against or are disingenuously misrepresenting what was actually and repeatedly said.

The main argument against wearing any protective equipment, including latex gloves which you casually omitted, was that a) it provided a false sense of safety that ironically ends up increasing the risk of contagion of everyone around you, b) create incentives for those wearing the gear to repeatedly touch their face with a much higher frequency, c) deplete the supply of protective equipment and thus deprive healthcare workers who directly contact with covid19 patients from having basic safety measures.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#277

Post by rumanator »

dougmany wrote: post #167
Will_Parker wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission It's a disease spread by exhaled droplets. How the heck could masks _not_ work? Why has common sense, as an acceptable way to obtain knowledge, died in the general public?

I am always amused at how effective the There is no scientific evidence line is. That just means it has not been studied. No one has studied masks on this specific strain? It's new for crying out loud.

> No one has studied masks on this specific strain?

You're misrepresenting the entire problem.

The main unknown is not that protective equipment helps protect. That's a absurd strawman.

The main unknown is the impact on the likelihood that someone not educated or trained or experienced in facing biological hazards would contract a virus when knowingly exposing themselves to the virus while wearing said protective equipment to the best of their personal abilities, discipline, and knowledge.

That's the main unknown.

Meanwhile, do keep in mind that the effectiveness of condoms to stop unwanted pregnancies, which are pretty much widespread and even covered by classes included as part of mandatory public education, has been as low as 79% if poorly used.

https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-condom...

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#278

Post by floatingatoll »

dmix wrote: post #184
floatingatoll wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top of the linked article says: > the bootlickers on Hackernews I skimmed and found a lot of inflammatory phrasing, so that was the end of it for me.

I was referring to the book author: https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1268529570480824320 I didn't read the post in question since I knew the gist already.

Ah, apologies :(

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#279

Post by ardy42 »

ping_pong wrote: post #158
ardy42 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> That's not what free speech is. > The argument becomes more difficult the more widely used and essential a platform is. The solution is to not let any one platform get that big and essential as a matter of policy. For free speech to actually be positive, I'm starting to think it's actually pretty important for that speech to be subjected to some kind of peer review process before it's broadcast widely. We used to…

When people say the things that you say, what they really mean is "I believe in free speech, except for those opinions that I don't believe are right." Restricting free speech until it's vetted is literally counter to what free speech actually is. Free speech is allowing everyone to speak, even if it makes you nauseous. If you don't believe in free speech, then say so, that's your right as per free speech. But please…

> When people say the things that you say, what they really mean is "I believe in free speech, except for those opinions that I don't believe are right."

No they don't, since you misunderstood what I was saying.

> Restricting free speech until it's vetted is literally counter to what free speech actually is. Free speech is allowing everyone to speak, even if it makes you nauseous.

Again, I'm not advocating restricting anyone's speech, but rather emphasizing the value of a system with people who make editorial judgements. Amazon, like any publisher, should have the uncontroversial right to refuse to publish or sell any book it pleases for any reason it finds compelling. If its size makes people queasy about that, then it should be broken up to the point where that's not an issue.

> But please don't try to gaslight people into thinking that "peer-reviewed free speech" is anything except censorship.

So you're saying it's censorship that scientific journals refuse to publish the papers crackpots send them?

It's worth remembering that the ultimate goal of free speech is for the truth to prevail, not to nauseate everyone by forcing them to sort through and disseminate mountains of garbage.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#280

Post by tengbretson »

pen2l wrote: post #2

After a half hour long conversation with my neighbor last week of him trying to convince me that Bill Gates is behind coronavirus, please, for the love of our future, continue banning information that is blatantly put up on a bad faith basis. It's exhausting to see my mom and dad succumb to a new conspiracy every other day. I don't see how else we can curb this other than for the tech companies to start aggressively…

You spoke with your neighbor about this for a half hour and it sounds to me like he was unable to convince you that this was true. It seems like somehow you're immune to the spread of this information. Perhaps it's just the rubes that need to be protected from the bad information? Maybe there's some kind of gullibility test we could administer and if you fail you have to get your information filtered but if you pass you can read anything you want.
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