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Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

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Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#251
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral systems based on clear and universalized principles are more intrinsically compelling than arbitrary preferences that are merely labeled "moral". If Slack employees said they felt is was unethical to serve chocolate over vanilla ice cream, none of us would pay attention.

Yes, but there is almost no way to fully follow through on clear and universal principles. Instead of worrying about that, consider the possibility that our moral feelings are generated by a natural receptivity most of us have to the suffering of others, and that even if these feelings to not appear consistent with a universal and logical philosophical schema, I think it's more appropriate to carefully listen to the…

> it's still unproductive to dismiss someone who disagrees out of hand.

My original comment was the opposite of an out-of-hand dismissal. I thought about what he was proposing, carried it to it's logical conclusion, and showed that it was flawed. I then invited him to propose a fix. No fix has been suggested.

> I think it's more appropriate to carefully listen to the compassionate concerns of others than to try and develop ways to ignore them.

Strong, unprincipled moral feelings come to every human since they are a small child. There is good evidence that these are very biased and lead to results that are immoral upon reflection. The world is awash in people announcing their unreflected moral feelings, and these point in contradictory directions. "Listen to this particular random person's feelings....but don't challenge their validity" is not useful advice.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#252

Are we saying that: (a) police are a net good, but slack is aiding/encouraging particular bad behaviors; or (b) police are a net bad and we should just deny them anything that enables them to do their jobs; or (c) police are a net good, but it's bad PR to associate with them

Are legal bullies a net good or bad?

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#253

I don’t get it. Are we now advocating that police is overall more of a force of evil than good? Legitimate question.

The legal system relies on police for testimonies, carrying out warrants for evidence, among other things. Because of this the legal system protects them unless the public is outrage.

Right now, police are legally allowed to bully the communities they serve. Not all police do, but the problem is normal citizens have no recourse to hold them accountable when they do. The system in place is evil for allowing such behavior to go unpunished and needs to be changed.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#254
post #59

I don’t get it. Are we now advocating that police is overall more of a force of evil than good? Legitimate question.

https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/gwxsl0/an_... https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gx20pi/lapd_shoots_ho... https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gwzrap/this... https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/gwvk... After seeing things like this (hell, these are some of the tamer videos I've seen in the past week), I'm not sure how anybody can seriously still support the police…

I think I'm losing my mind.

https://www.investigativepost.org/2020/06/05/police-unit-res...

> “Fifty-seven [officers] resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” said John Evans, PBA president.

> The announcement comes one day after two members were suspended without pay when a video surfaced, showing the officers pushing over a 75-year-old protestor, causing injury. The BPD Internal Affairs unit has opened an investigation into the incident.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like this entire movement is really taking away credit from the "ok" and "good" cops. I feel the response to this movement shows that there are fewer good cops that anyone would have expected. They protect their own at the cost of citizens they should be protecting. They lie. They cheat. They assault and murder without consequence. > Even if there were 1,000 police brutality related deaths a year (there aren…

>I feel the response to this movement shows that there are fewer good cops that anyone would have expected. What leads you to believe this at an empirical level, though? The inciting incident of course sadly shows yet another example of detestable police and policing, and the reaction shows additional instances of cruel and overly aggressive policing (arresting and assaulting peaceful protesters and reporters in some…

I think the Buffalo incident yesterday[0] gives us a good indication of just how rare a good cop is. Even though there were dozens of cops that witnessed it, they all lied and claimed that "During that skirmish involving protestors, one person was injured when he tripped & fell".

Then, after the cops who nearly killed the man got suspended, all 57 people on that particular team resigned "in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,"[2].

Since you want empirical results, that is 0 good cops out of the 57 people on the force. We can employ the rule of 3 to establish an upper bound good cop rate as 5.2% (95% CI).

This isn't to say that the cops are by nature bad. Rather, the institutions and norms that exist in many police departments ensure that nearly all cops become bad cops.

[0]: https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-two-buffalo-police-...

[1]: https://www.investigativepost.org/2020/06/05/police-unit-res...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(statistics)

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#256
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?

When most people advocate for divesting, defunding, or abolishing the police, they aren't suggesting that we go without literally any law enforcement. They simply believe the current system is too broken and corrupt to be reformed and that we need to start completely over. These advocates are generally against other avenues of reforms because those reforms can give a false sense of accomplishment without addressing t…

Most people aren't advocating for that though.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#257

Former Slack employee here... This blog post/case study was published a few years ago by Slack's marketing team and led to a firestorm of controversy within the company. Many employees of all backgrounds spoke up about how upset they were that Slack would use a police department as marketing. Eventually the decision was made to keep it up which certainly frustrated a lot of people. I guess now the leaders have decide…

Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?

It's just bad optics right now. Doesn't need to make sense, just perceptions.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#258
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?

The police aren't enabling a civil society right now. The current policing methods in the US are barbaric to put it mildly. Some third world countries have better behaved police.

Some third world countries have better behaved citizens.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure there’s truth to it, but there are 800k police officers in the US. Are you ready to condemn the entire profession because of a handful of bad experiences?

Imagine a handcuffed, nondangerous, nonviolent person is literally murdered by strangulation by a cop, and three cops stand right there watching and do nothing and don't even appear to be fazed by what's going on. If I was the cop watching, I would kick that asshole in the face and try to stop him. I'm sure if you asked 99% of normal people they would agree. But three cops literally watched and did nothing. Many cops…

Imagine thinking he was not dangerous and not violent.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#260
post #59

I don’t get it. Are we now advocating that police is overall more of a force of evil than good? Legitimate question.

https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/gwxsl0/an_... https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gx20pi/lapd_shoots_ho... https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gwzrap/this... https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/gwvk... After seeing things like this (hell, these are some of the tamer videos I've seen in the past week), I'm not sure how anybody can seriously still support the police…

All that imagery only proves that the cops aren't racist and they treat everyone equally.
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