Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#251

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #238

ceejayoz wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article links to The Lancet. I've edited and cite directly from the paper, and no, it's not "for optimal use of N95 masks". See my quoted segment. Even the bit you're quoting says "face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings".

> Even the bit you're quoting says "face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings". What's the control group? Here's what the paper says about the evidence: > Further high-quality research, including randomised trials of the optimum physical distance and the effectiveness of different types of masks in the general population and for health-care workers' protection, is urgently needed.

> What's the control group?

People who don't wear masks?

"We need more studies" is not the same as "our own study is bullshit". It's a simple statement of "there's something here that needs further confirmation".

In the meantime, I'm wearing a mask based on preliminary results, and the abject lack of "masks are actively dangerous" studies of any quality the anti-mask folks can refer to as a counterpoint.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#252

Post by natechols » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

StuntPope wrote: post #234

crazygringo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the whole point of extreme political ideologies like libertarianism and anarchism is that they are dogmatic. They have simple answers to complex problems. If you're grappling with gray areas, then congrats! You now have a more nuanced understanding that brings you closer to center, and you're not libertarian anymore.

I would say that calling libertarianism an extremist ideology is a gross misunderstanding of it. My guess is everything you think you know about libertarianism, was what you were told by somebody who hates it. Full-on anarchism, or anarcho-capitalism, ok, that's a hard sell. Libertarianism? It's basically "never initiate aggression" and "live and let live". That's about it. I don't know what's extreme about that.

One big reason why I was never comfortable identifying as a libertarian is that so many people react reflexively to the word, probably based on a few annoying college acquaintances who wouldn't shut up about "takers". In my experience actual libertarians have views as diverse as "liberals" or "conservatives" or members of either major party, but it's becoming impossible to dissociate the label from the stereotype.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#253

Post by zarkov99 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #54

guscost wrote: post #17

Official sources are continuing to mess up, and causing more destruction than this book ever could. The Lancet is about as official as it gets: https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620313246

Official sources are continuing to mess up It's a new disease. That's why it has the word "novel" in its name. People are working on it. Mistakes will always happen when dealing with unknowns, until they're known. The difference is that The Lancet will be fixed, and isn't making mistakes maliciously. causing more destruction than this book ever could Not provable hyperbole.

No one is expecting perfection, as you say its a novel virus. But the implication is also that official sources cannot be trusted to the point where they get to censor the discussion around the virus. It would be wrong to do that even if they were competent, which they are not.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#254

Post by mritun » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

Most people here on HackerNews are smart, educated, intelligent (probably in the upper IQ percentile) and perfectly able to decide for themselves what is good and bad.

HackerNews moderations and moderators are this suppressing speech of these people and imho this is anti free speech.

Can we start a petition for banning moderation on this website please.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#255

Post by downerending » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

If they start censoring dinosaur porn, then I'll really be pissed.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#256

Post by Sevaris » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #107

wwweston wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember what the official word was for all too long: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) * most people probably don't need those masks There's a wor…

> "Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: > * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer > * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) > * most people probably don't need those masks" yup, moreover, masks are marginal on top of other measures, most notably distancing. masks can make a differenc…

You realize wide swaths of the global population use communal transportation in the form of trains, busses and subways? And then go to work in poorly ventilated factories or office buildings? I'm not sure what you intend as the solution other than nobody may ever leave the house again. Social distancing simply doesn't work when applied to everyday situations like this unless you find a way to get most people to opt out. Just working in the same office means a high risk of transmission despite whatever 1-3m distancing rule you want to instate.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#257

Post by throwawy990 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #3

Never thought we'd see wide support for book restriction or censorship again. Are people not reading history or considering the second order effects? Heck, you don't even have to go back that far. Just look how badly "official sources" handled Covid-19. For example, remember what the official word was, even despite being a self-contradiction: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. You may say that's a no…

Been thinking about this for a couple hours. Decided to make a throwaway to post.

Not to call you out specifically but you asked about thinking about second order effects.

It got me to thinking this is a hypocritical for social media users to question OTHERS inability to consider them.

The machines Ycom and often this audience rely on, the energy, are terribly destructive to a stable environment for humans.

And the obvious distraction they create from government. It’s unwise, imo, to be so distracted from the groups that claim monopoly on violence. All the looking away these last decades lead us here. This isn’t a spontaneous result. You, we, as part of society didn’t bring that effort we brought this other one.

Utilitarian work is one thing. Surrounding ourselves with hyperbole, spectacle, and disposable gadgets and effort...

...contemporary society has pretty much destroyed its credibility with noble lies about the mess, value of our effort to future.

What a shock the power structure itself would behave just like society as a whole.

Considering the national past time is “not my economics problem so I don’t care”, what real credibility is there?

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#258

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

offmycloud wrote: post #61

whoisjuan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, with ideas like the one that claims COVID is spread to 5G networks, it's pretty easy to draw the line. But I get what you're saying. The closer you get to a rational argument the harder it is to scrutinize it.

Can you please provide a quote from the book in question?

That comment isn't about the book in question so I'm not sure why you're asking them?

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#259

Post by zarkov99 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #20

Reedx wrote: post #3

Never thought we'd see wide support for book restriction or censorship again. Are people not reading history or considering the second order effects? Heck, you don't even have to go back that far. Just look how badly "official sources" handled Covid-19. For example, remember what the official word was, even despite being a self-contradiction: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. You may say that's a no…

Free flow of information is not the same as misinformation. Lack of understanding is not the same as misinforming. I 100% support restricting distribution of material that is based on conjecture and bullshit info. Especially when that information comes with a for-profit motive. This person can easily put their book for free on their own website if they really feel they have important information to share. Amazon can…

What do you mean the right to have an audience? People still need to buy the freaking thing, why does Amazon get to decide if they can or cannot?

Different rules apply when you are a monopoly. Amazon refusing to sell a book is very different from a Mom and Pop shop doing the same.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#260

Post by downerending » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

mritun wrote: post #254

Most people here on HackerNews are smart, educated, intelligent (probably in the upper IQ percentile) and perfectly able to decide for themselves what is good and bad. HackerNews moderations and moderators are this suppressing speech of these people and imho this is anti free speech. Can we start a petition for banning moderation on this website please.

I'll accept snark, but grammar, please.