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If you see the cops, start recording

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Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#201

Post by standardUser »

footnipple wrote: post #37
jakelazaroff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is not very much standing between order and chaos, and after seeing much chaos, I choose order. The problem is that the police are causing most of the chaos. Looting has largely stopped in NYC, and all of the protests to which I've been have been entirely peaceful. But police still start beating and arresting people indiscriminately as soon as curfew starts — in some cases, even boxing protestors in so they c…

I respectfully disagree. I think the looters/insurgents are causing the chaos.

Do you have an examples of looting or rioting that was not a direct response to police brutality? There may be some examples, but every example I can think of in my lifetime was in direct response to illegal, violent acts by the police.

Maybe some fringe elements of the Iraq war protests are an exception.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#202

Post by standardUser »

footnipple wrote: post #146
deleted_account wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thin Blue Line is a myth. A symptom of people who have fallen victim to mean world syndrome.

Ha! If you're anywhere near Chicago, I might be able to get you on a ride along when things quiet down. It'll change you...

Chicago is a big city. Maybe some neighborhoods require heavily armed police for many calls. Maybe other neighborhoods do not. Try to use some imagination here. Police officers keep beating and killing unarmed citizens. We need solutions not excuses.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#203

Post by thelean12 »

pjc50 wrote: post #177
thelean12 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do so many people need to be so extreme? Zero is impossible. If you want to make the development argument, then you should know that bugs are unavoidable. Even from the best developers in the world. No amount of code reviews, tests, or processes will change that. Can you reduce? Of course. By a really large amount? Probably. But "zero" is an impossible goal. The statement "We can live in a world where the police…

Norway manage it: https://www.businessinsider.com/norway-america-police-killin... Zero is the only reasonable target. Every death should be treated as a process and policy failure. Every death should lead to an improvement. It will be a long way to get there, but as JFK said, we do these things not because they are easy.

A country with minimal diversity that's less than 2% the population of the US. A country whose largest city has an extremely lower population density than US cities (10x less than NYC, 7x less than LA). You can't just cherry pick data and think it's applicable.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#204

Post by plushpuffin »

footnipple wrote: post #143
mountainboot wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurgents? Really? I think bigfoot is causing the chaos.

Not sure about Bigfoot, but yes, this is a fairly well funded and organized insurgency. Most definitely.

OK, let's nail this down. Who are the insurgents, and what is their goal?

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#205

Post by camgunz »

jonfw wrote: post #161
Ididntdothis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So, we should have the cops take out liability insurance and pay damages?" No, they should get proper training and be held to professional standards.

Are you ready to double the pay of police? If you wanted to go through a lot of training and be held to high standards, you'd probably look for a more lucrative gig than being a cop

Not only am I willing to double it (or more), I'm willing to drastically reduce their duties. We ask far too much of police officers in the US, we need to respect their wellbeing and start addressing root causes of issues.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RtnQ2GqBeg

[2]: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/killing-of-george-fl...

[3]: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/06/03/457251670...

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#206

Post by chrisco255 »

cwkoss wrote: post #175
chrisco255 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…

In what percentage of police dispatches do they arrive on scene while an armed suspect is still there? I would guess it's significantly lower than 50% Sure, send armed cops to handle situations that force is likely to needed. But cops don't need guns to take down police reports. Rape victims don't need armed officers to take down police reports. Property crime victims don't need armed officers to take down police rep…

Unless you can tell me ahead of time which police reports are going to end in violence, I suggest you reconsider your thinking. Sometimes something as innocent as a speeding ticket turns into a shooting.

Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. Drunk people can be armed. Domestically abused people can live in dangerous neighborhoods with gangs present. Sorry, a camera is not going to defend you from the Latin Kings.

Violent criminals do not care about your unicorn ideals. If they sense police are nerfed, they will fill that power vacuum with gang violence and drive out the police.

You tell me why Ciudad Juarez is one of the most dangerous cities in the world but El Paso, directly across the U.S.-Mexico border is relatively safe. That's policing.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#207

Post by Ididntdothis »

camgunz wrote: post #205
jonfw wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ready to double the pay of police? If you wanted to go through a lot of training and be held to high standards, you'd probably look for a more lucrative gig than being a cop

Not only am I willing to double it (or more), I'm willing to drastically reduce their duties. We ask far too much of police officers in the US, we need to respect their wellbeing and start addressing root causes of issues. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RtnQ2GqBeg [2]: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/killing-of-george-fl... [3]: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/06/03/457251670...

Very true. Especially the petty drug arrests they have to do are poisoning relationships between cops and citizens.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#208

Post by dpeck »

mulmen wrote: post #200
staticassertion wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK? That doesn't matter. If the vast majority of crimes are not violent, it's not really important what the absolute numbers are. It could be 1,000 or 10, the point is that the majority of responders don't need deadly weapons.

95% is not “the vast majority”. To put 5% in more extreme terms: would you play Russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and one bullet? Each interaction for police is like pulling the trigger in that hypothetical game of Russian roulette. This is why the absolute numbers are actually very important.

if 95% doesn't qualify as "the vast majority" of anything then the phrase has no usefulness.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#209

Post by thelean12 »

deleted_account wrote: post #193
thelean12 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do so many people need to be so extreme? Zero is impossible. If you want to make the development argument, then you should know that bugs are unavoidable. Even from the best developers in the world. No amount of code reviews, tests, or processes will change that. Can you reduce? Of course. By a really large amount? Probably. But "zero" is an impossible goal. The statement "We can live in a world where the police…

Stop. Think. You're making a "perfect is the enemy of the good" argument which ultimately supports police brutality and systemic racism. (I'll also point out that 8cantwait.org is a Campaign Zero project. Thank you for linking it.)

Do you truly think that there are zero cases where a police officer firing a gun is justified?

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#210

Post by mulmen »

dpeck wrote: post #208
mulmen wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% is not “the vast majority”. To put 5% in more extreme terms: would you play Russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and one bullet? Each interaction for police is like pulling the trigger in that hypothetical game of Russian roulette. This is why the absolute numbers are actually very important.

if 95% doesn't qualify as "the vast majority" of anything then the phrase has no usefulness.

Would you use a hosting provider with 95% uptime? That’s 72 minutes of downtime per day. Would you describe them as being up "the vast majority" of the time?
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