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Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

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Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least two of those links had nuanced reasons that matched the parent's remarks. One even literately had a three point explanation: * There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission * Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection * We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-ris…

> There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission It's a disease spread by exhaled droplets. How the heck could masks _not_ work? Why has common sense, as an acceptable way to obtain knowledge, died in the general public?

In healthcare there's a bunch of stuff that sounds plausible, and then we do the research, and we find that it doesn't help or it causes harm.

Evidence based medicine isn't there to stop crystal healing. It's there to work out whether knee arthroscopy is better than placebo. (For some patients it isn't).

Masks have a plausible mechanism of action. But they also have plausible mechanisms of harm: they may reduce social distancing; people touch their face more often when wearing a mask; most people don't know how to put on or take off the masks; most people don't have a safe place to store the mask when it's not being worn; etc. We don't know if the benefits outweigh the risk, because we don't have good quality evidence yet.

Here's some papers:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

> Transmission of viruses was lower with physical distancing of 1 m or more, compared with a distance of less than 1 m (n=10 736, pooled adjusted odds ratio [aOR] 0·18, 95% CI 0·09 to 0·38; risk difference [RD] −10·2%, 95% CI −11·5 to −7·5; moderate certainty); protection was increased as distance was lengthened (change in relative risk [RR] 2·02 per m; pinteraction=0·041; moderate certainty). Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty).

Here they say that distancing does work. But when talking about N95 masks they only say "could" work, and for cloth masks they say they have low certainty. Later in the paper they say they need more and better evidence for masks.

https://www.publish.csiro.au/hc/pdf/HC15950

Have a look at the table on page 2. They've looked at RCTs and they've found no benefit for masks. They go back and look at other data and they claim to find a benefit, which is why masks are recommended for HCPs.

When you say "it's transmitted by inhaled droplets" you didn't say how it's caught, and here it's clear that you think it's by breathing in those droplets. That's one route. The other is via the eye. Or the droplets land on surfaces and are transferred by hand to the eye or nose or mouth.

https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

> Transmission of acute respiratory infections occurs primarily by contact and droplet routes, and accordingly, the use of a surgical mask, eye protection, gown and gloves should be considered appropriate personal protective equipment when providing routine care for a patient with a transmissible acute respiratory infection.

When someone coughs the droplets are expelled in a range of sizes. Some of these are trapped by cloth masks, but not all.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-...

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear that will only mitigate the spread, not curb the belief in it, unfortunately. If anything so many conspiracy theories seem massively fueled even today by any attempts to silence. I fear something along the lines of education and critical thinking is the only way to deal with this problem. I just don't know how to get there :(

> I fear thats seems to be the root of the problem. we're a fear driven economy now. That's why conspiracy theories are rampant, as well as actual conspiracies. I liked the quote from Apocalypto: > Fear. Deep rotting fear. They were infected by it. Did you see? Fear is a sickness. It will crawl into the soul of anyone who engages it. It has tainted your peace already. I did not raise you to see you live with fear. St…

Nothing generates fear and distrust like censorship.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission It's a disease spread by exhaled droplets. How the heck could masks _not_ work? Why has common sense, as an acceptable way to obtain knowledge, died in the general public?

I am always amused at how effective the There is no scientific evidence line is. That just means it has not been studied. No one has studied masks on this specific strain? It's new for crying out loud.

There is a lot of work on respiratory viruses and masks, and none of the RCTs can find a benefit of wearing masks.

> No one has studied masks on this specific strain? It's new for crying out loud.

Yes they have. Here's one where they take four patients who have covid-19 and fit them with masks and ask them to cough onto petri dishes. They find covid outside the masks.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#184
post #91

Big Streisand effect on this one, I followed him in the past and noticed his Twitter has exploded in followers/attention since Amazon censored his book. I decided to read the book to see why it was so threatening and worthy of Amazon crossing into such a dangerous line into censorship. And it was mostly a milquetoast glorified blog post. I also watched that stupid Plandemic video, which I never would have otherwise,…

Top of the linked article says: > the bootlickers on Hackernews I skimmed and found a lot of inflammatory phrasing, so that was the end of it for me.

I was referring to the book author: https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1268529570480824320

I didn't read the post in question since I knew the gist already.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#185
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point one is equivalent to saying "masks don't work" when communicated in that way to the general public.

It's also a remarkably vacuous thing to say. Of course there's not always scientific evidence for how to respond to new threats in real time. It's perfectly reasonable to make the best decisions you can with the information available. To say what they said is to try to weaponize the totally sensible dictum to "listen to the science" in a context in which they damn well knew that it made no sense (and without any indi…

We have a lot of information about a variety of respiratory viruses and masks, and almost all of it says that masks don't do much.

We're getting more information about specifically covid-19, and again that says that masks don't do much.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#187
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least two of those links had nuanced reasons that matched the parent's remarks. One even literately had a three point explanation: * There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission * Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection * We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-ris…

First, let's (not be tedious and) agree that the reason healthcare workers wear masks is to prevent airborne infections, especially of SARS-Cov-2. Now clearly your first and second points contradict each other. Furthermore the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Cf. Peer reviewed studies, or lack thereof, supporting the 6 ft "social" distancing protocol and, up until recently, the use of parachutes wh…

> agree that the reason healthcare workers wear masks is to prevent airborne infections, especially of SARS-Cov-2.

There's a big difference between a healthcare professional spending time in close contact with symptomatic people and a member of the public spending time walking round a supermarket.

And healthcare professionals do not "wear masks", they wear a full set of PPE including gloves, gown, mask, eye protection. They also have access to running water and soap, and alcohol hand gels.

> Peer reviewed studies, or lack thereof, supporting the 6 ft "social" distancing protocol

No, we have studies supporting 1 metre distancing and recommending 2 meter distancing. The evidence for this distancing is much stronger than the evidence for mask wearing.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#188
post #171
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many sent people to hardware stores etc to buy masks.

No doubt, but knowing how much PPE my local hospital goes through in a week, it's difficult to believe that hardware stores etc would any significant impact on PPE availability. The most commonly sold type (FFP1) isn't even allowed in hospital settings.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#189
post #2

After a half hour long conversation with my neighbor last week of him trying to convince me that Bill Gates is behind coronavirus, please, for the love of our future, continue banning information that is blatantly put up on a bad faith basis. It's exhausting to see my mom and dad succumb to a new conspiracy every other day. I don't see how else we can curb this other than for the tech companies to start aggressively…

I never get this. Why does Bill Gates need to inject people to track them when we're all carrying cell phones which provide far more data including much more refined location data than you could get will an implant. Just saying, if you're going to have a conspiracy, there's a much better one to use as your basis.

it is not tracking, the conspiracy theory it is supposed to be a 'mark of the beast' that designates someone is part of the new world order founded by the antichrist

the actual technology is a a sub skin electronic ink that is implanted during vaccination that can be read with a cell phone, used to track vaccinations in less developed countries

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't get flagged. To be fair to HN, they do want just tech news. Most COIVD and riot posts are weighted down. It looks like it takes them 3~4 times as many votes to rise as other articles. I can understand them wanting to keep HN focused on tech. It's a good distraction during this. But when we do occasionally see these posts before they get flushed to page 4 or 5, I love the fact that the comments are filled w…

Thanks for the context. My writing focus has been on big tech, censorship, deplatforming and related topics and the last 4 or 5 articles I've posted here were flagged despite being heavily upvoted and making the front page. I can see people flagging it if it nobody comments, nobody upvotes it and it's clear nobody is interested or finds it germane. Ok. But it always seemed as if people were using the flag function as…

>The way I see it, if an article didn't address a topic relevant to HN, then it wouldn't rise. It's that simple.

This is, at best, naive. On a site this large, posting come current affairs clickbait is sure to attract a lot of voting from people who think HN is Reddit. Or should be.

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