Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any suggestions for such a setup?
ACLU has an app specifically for that, which uploads videos to them automatically.
If you see the cops, start recording
171–180 of 271 posts
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for the advice footnipple. Soon I will be able to beat innocent protestors and minorities with impunity like a god fearing American. Definitely, the police force is a place where an individual can make a difference and is not an institutional force so ferocious that even the mayors are afraid of them.
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how strongly you dislike or disagree with what someone else said. That comment being heavily downvoted is an indication that a lot of community members don't agree with it, but they didn't then proceed to break the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it looks like you've been using this site primarily for political b…
The OP came from theverge. You might as well post things from politico or the thehill and tell people the same thing. Being disingenuous part of the mandate, or is that just the moderators?
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#173Semi off topic, but one thing that really bugs me about the dialogue around police is when people (especially authority figures) call non-police “civilians”. I get that you need a word for it, but “civilians” is a particularly poor choice.
The police ARE civilians. They are not military, nor are they subject to military justice or discipline, and their training and function in society is (whether they like it or not) entirely different. They are members of the community, not an occupying army.
This might seem like pedantry but it’s not: using the word civilian for non-police takes the militarization of the police as an unquestioned assumption.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#174I think half of the police force should be 'armed' with nothing more than cameras. Arrests are not necessary in the vast majority of situations police are called for, and recording technology is far superior to verbal testimony for serving our courts
Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…
If the system worked then you could argue that cops have a reasonable right to be armed. But the system is not working, and 10x people without guns are killed by cops, than are cops killed. Plus whenever a cop is actually killed, the entire system has their back, and justice is almost always served.
This is not the case for people without guns who are killed by cops. It's an acceptable loss that a few more cops are killed because we don't arm every single one of them, if it means that a lot more innocent people aren't killed by cops with an itchy trigger finger.
Sorry, cops. They've had decades of chances, and this past weekend proves that cops can't control themselves even when they're being called out by the thousands who are recording their behavior for all to see. So now they will have to earn the right to carry lethal weaponry.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#175I think half of the police force should be 'armed' with nothing more than cameras. Arrests are not necessary in the vast majority of situations police are called for, and recording technology is far superior to verbal testimony for serving our courts
Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…
In what percentage of police dispatches do they arrive on scene while an armed suspect is still there? I would guess it's significantly lower than 50%
Sure, send armed cops to handle situations that force is likely to needed. But cops don't need guns to take down police reports. Rape victims don't need armed officers to take down police reports. Property crime victims don't need armed officers to take down police reports. Officers do not need to be armed to write speeding tickets or DUIs.
The primary role of police is observation, recording of facts and interacting with the community. 90+% of the time they spend serving society do not require force.
We could spend much less on police and have better trained cops when force is actually needed by not even considering arming the half of cops who respond to situations where force is unnecessary. The unarmed cops can cost less because they don't need firearms training and job would be less mentally taxing so they could be paid less: then, they can call in armed cops for the minority of situations where force is necessary.
Only give guns to the best cops: the bar to become a cop is way too low to continue arming all of them. I'd love to see a tiered system where cops have to be continually tested and trained to prove they should be entrusted with various levels of force: ex. Camera -> Authorization to use force in arrests -> Pepper Spray -> Stun Gun -> Firearms
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, we should have the cops take out liability insurance and pay damages? That actually sounds like a pretty good idea, honestly.
"So, we should have the cops take out liability insurance and pay damages?" No, they should get proper training and be held to professional standards.
Forcing them to take out liability insurance is how you incentivize them to get proper training and instill professional standards.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look at it this way, what would you think of a development team that shipped bugs to production and had...no code reviews...no unit tests...no bug tracking system? And every time they shipped a bug someone died? You might be inclined to improve the process, right? I won't belabor the analogy. Campaign Zero has a great summary of the policy changes that can help: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions
Why do so many people need to be so extreme? Zero is impossible. If you want to make the development argument, then you should know that bugs are unavoidable. Even from the best developers in the world. No amount of code reviews, tests, or processes will change that. Can you reduce? Of course. By a really large amount? Probably. But "zero" is an impossible goal. The statement "We can live in a world where the police…
Norway manage it: https://www.businessinsider.com/norway-america-police-killin...
Zero is the only reasonable target. Every death should be treated as a process and policy failure. Every death should lead to an improvement.
It will be a long way to get there, but as JFK said, we do these things not because they are easy.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#178> But before action was taken by city leaders, Buffalo police lied about the incident. In an initial statement, the department said that a person was arrested "during a skirmish with other protesters," and that "during that skirmish involving protesters, one person was injured when he tripped and fell." The video clearly refutes the statement, showing that there was no skirmish around the elderly man, and that the of…
There is parallel with pilots and airplane crashes. There is a tendency for airlines to put the blame on a pilot in case of a crash, this disincentives pilots from speaking the truth. Unfortunately the 'anti cop' sentiment would have the same effect. Imgaine how hard it is for us to admit a mistake at work which brings the website down but here someone's life is at stake. What happens if a cop makes a mistake and cau…
> What happens if a cop makes a mistake and causes grave injury to someone. What would be his incentive to admit mistake and possibly spend rest of his life in prison.
i've said it before but here it is again, a workable system for police accountability:
there are tangible ways that laws could be setup and practices adhered to that would make cops more accountable and, while maybe the same level of racist in some parts, help ensure that they get held accountable more often than not.
mandatory body cams rolling at all times unless they are in a bathroom.
turning off or a malfunctioning camera during the act of a police brutality event immediately pierces the qualified immunity defense and they are tried as citizens.
have an outside investigative body that has zero ties to the police department investigate any reports of abuse.
have another outside investigative body that has zero ties to the police department randomly sampling police stop footage to see if there are any instances of impropriety.
I am sure this list is non-exhaustive but it's a start. also, while we are here, fix the issue of civil asset forfeiture. the clear "we get to take your money because it looks suspicious and then keep it for the police department" is a huge conflict of interest.
> There is a tendency for airlines to put the blame on a pilot in case of a crash, this disincentives pilots from speaking the truth.
the other side to this is that the airlines have every single input and the conversation that lead up to the crash along with the meticulous analysis of the wreckage and records of maintenance... the cops investigate themselves and find themselves not guilty of any crimes.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
"So, we should have the cops take out liability insurance and pay damages?" No, they should get proper training and be held to professional standards.
Are you ready to double the pay of police? If you wanted to go through a lot of training and be held to high standards, you'd probably look for a more lucrative gig than being a cop
If that’s what’s needed to attract reasonable people into the police then so be it. If we aren’t willing to pay for proper training and supervision then we have the police force we deserve.
Re: If you see the cops, start recording
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
footnipple never said that protesters are "causing chaos", there is a difference between looters and protesters, and there is A LOT of evidence online of looters taking advantage of the protesting.
If there's even still looting in NYC, there's not much of it. Every single protest I've been to has been peaceful. The unprovoked assaults by the NYPD on those breaking curfew this entire week have happened during peaceful protests.
> If there's even still looting in NYC, there's not much of it.
Please, you need to look beyond NYC.
The riots/looting has been happening across the US. I agree that there have been peaceful protesting, but you cannot deny that there have been riots and looting across the US.
Some black businesses have also been affected by this.
There is no justification for it.