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Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

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Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#91

Post by johannes1234321 »

kop316 wrote: post #47
netsharc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest foreigner question: are all US police that "stinky" that any association with them is now bad, or is it an overreaction? Surely there are good police departments, ones that work with the community and not against them? But maybe I'm not seeing it from the perspective of those black employees...

The issue isn't there are good or bad cops. In any large organization there will be "bad apples" (malicious actors), that just statistically will happen. What is very important is how misconduct is handled, and how these "bad apples" are handled. Due to the legal concept of qualified immunity, it is very difficult to sue the police for civil or criminal liability. I understand the intent of qualified immunity. The id…

The question is not only about how "bad apples" are handled, but also what techniques are taught, what kind of leadership is given.

If you stick cops in heavily protected gear this gives them stronger feelings.

If you have a President (who isn't directly responsible for police) cheering to be "tough" ("Like when you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over? Like, don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody — don’t hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/28/t...) and then not have a leadership promoting other values you encourage to be like the "bad apple" not like the good apple.

If you then also often have cops alone on duty or with fixed partners, thus no rotation you have less internal checking.

If you are then also in a country where the police officers have to assume that the citizen they pulled over might be armed you certainly don't help them to relax.

The list goes on - true, most cops certainly want to be good, but there are systematic issues emporing the bad ones.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#92

Post by marcinzm »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #81
jeffdavis wrote: post #63

Are we saying that: (a) police are a net good, but slack is aiding/encouraging particular bad behaviors; or (b) police are a net bad and we should just deny them anything that enables them to do their jobs; or (c) police are a net good, but it's bad PR to associate with them

It's a witch-hunt, plain and simple. Of course the police needs reform, demilitarization, higher standards, more accountability, and better educational requirements. How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

>How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

These aren't new issues, practically speaking every attempt at less radical solutions hasn't worked and there have been many. In the end, the solution will be filled with political compromise and the weaker your starting position the more compromise there will be.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#93

Post by nitrogen »

lm28469 wrote: post #51
anticonformist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This principle incriminates the protesters just as much. There is widespread rationalization and support for the "few bad apples" perpetrating violence/looting/burning/rioting. There is very little condemnation. Lots of quoting MLK Jr. "rioting is the voice of the unheard" and yet MLK Jr. certainly did not practice or advocate violence. If the protesters can't regulate their own bad apples then how can they judge pol…

> This principle incriminates the protesters just as much. Yeah but you know, one group _took oath to protect and serve_ and the other didn't. It's like when Trump say some racist shit VS when your drunk uncle says the same thing, you can't put both sides to the same standards. Everybody condemn rioters, but for some reasons a lot of people, including the president and many officials, manage to rationalise police bru…

Also, why do people keep creating new accounts to post these very poorly thought comments ? Don't you have the balls to attach your speech to your semi public internet presence or are you just trolling ?

I think it's fair for someone on the fence, or visiting the conversation from the other side, to comment on the crimes of both sides without fear of being personally insulted on HN.

We can condemn the police and hold them to the much higher bar they should be held to, and also condemn whatever looting and vandalism is occurring. "Two wrongs" etc.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#94

Post by sg47 »

xwowsersx wrote: post #84
sbilstein wrote: post #2

Former Slack employee here... This blog post/case study was published a few years ago by Slack's marketing team and led to a firestorm of controversy within the company. Many employees of all backgrounds spoke up about how upset they were that Slack would use a police department as marketing. Eventually the decision was made to keep it up which certainly frustrated a lot of people. I guess now the leaders have decide…

Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?

The police aren't enabling a civil society right now. The current policing methods in the US are barbaric to put it mildly. Some third world countries have better behaved police.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#95

Post by ceilingcorner »

bradly wrote: post #87
ceilingcorner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a witch-hunt, plain and simple. Of course the police needs reform, demilitarization, higher standards, more accountability, and better educational requirements. How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

> How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me. If not this way the, how do you get it? It's been hundreds of years. The U.S. is not immune to revolutions and revolutions have changed corrupt states for a very long time.

Study other countries which have less police violence? Incorporate more community involvement? Etc.

The idea that society doesn't need some sort of police force is so hilariously naive, I am in disbelief that serious people are suggesting it. Clearly they are from an extremely privileged background and never had to deal with living in poor areas.

The police absolutely need reform, but to pretend that they're more of a threat than criminals is factually false.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#96

Post by jeffdavis »

lreeves wrote: post #72
jeffdavis wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your city had a ballot initiative to defund and disband the police department, would you vote for it? EDIT: I'm a little confused about the downvotes. If the answer is "no", then what's the problem with police using slack? Isn't it just a basic tool for communication? Is selling them radios also bad? I should also say that my answer in my city would be "no".

It's pretty disingenuous to suggest that there's only a binary choice about how to deal with this problem. If you look at the policies of a site like Campaign Zero [1] you'll see that there's a lot of options that can help. 1 - https://www.joincampaignzero.org/

I'm just trying to figure out why it's bad that police use slack. If we don't want police to be able to communicate, why not just disband them?

Note that I'm not suggesting we disband them. I am just trying to follow the logic.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#97

Post by sg47 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #81
jeffdavis wrote: post #63

Are we saying that: (a) police are a net good, but slack is aiding/encouraging particular bad behaviors; or (b) police are a net bad and we should just deny them anything that enables them to do their jobs; or (c) police are a net good, but it's bad PR to associate with them

It's a witch-hunt, plain and simple. Of course the police needs reform, demilitarization, higher standards, more accountability, and better educational requirements. How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

Wait what? All the things you mentioned are table stakes. Till we have those things, there's effectively no police department. We have a bunch of empowered thugs roaming around unencumbered. We absolutely have to demonize (rather bring out their true color) in order to have any reasonable possibility of change.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#98

Post by hellomyguys »

xwowsersx wrote: post #84
sbilstein wrote: post #2

Former Slack employee here... This blog post/case study was published a few years ago by Slack's marketing team and led to a firestorm of controversy within the company. Many employees of all backgrounds spoke up about how upset they were that Slack would use a police department as marketing. Eventually the decision was made to keep it up which certainly frustrated a lot of people. I guess now the leaders have decide…

Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?

For many people in the US, providing the police your tech means you are implicitly supporting actions of police brutality and racism by cops.

Using it as marketing material optically looks even worse.

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#99

Post by throwaway894345 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #81
jeffdavis wrote: post #63

Are we saying that: (a) police are a net good, but slack is aiding/encouraging particular bad behaviors; or (b) police are a net bad and we should just deny them anything that enables them to do their jobs; or (c) police are a net good, but it's bad PR to associate with them

It's a witch-hunt, plain and simple. Of course the police needs reform, demilitarization, higher standards, more accountability, and better educational requirements. How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

> How you get any of those things by demonizing the police and making it a left-vs-right political issue is beyond me.

I get this vibe as well. I want to interpret this charitably, but this seems antithetical to good faith participation. It feels like these people don't actually care about police brutality--any arbitrary partisan issue would suffice. Of course, I'm sure I'm misreading the situation (even though social psychology's most replicable studies predict exactly this sort of hyper-partisanship).

Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech

#100

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

kop316 wrote: post #47
netsharc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest foreigner question: are all US police that "stinky" that any association with them is now bad, or is it an overreaction? Surely there are good police departments, ones that work with the community and not against them? But maybe I'm not seeing it from the perspective of those black employees...

The issue isn't there are good or bad cops. In any large organization there will be "bad apples" (malicious actors), that just statistically will happen. What is very important is how misconduct is handled, and how these "bad apples" are handled. Due to the legal concept of qualified immunity, it is very difficult to sue the police for civil or criminal liability. I understand the intent of qualified immunity. The id…

The other point that's often missed is the phrase last three words of the sentence "A few bad apples spoil the bunch."

Allowing the "bad apples" to remain in the "bunch" means that the entire "bunch" goes bad.

The analogy is accurate. There were a few bad officers. They were allowed to remain. Now there are now a majority of bad officers.

Without a speedy and public process to remove bad behavior, including disciplinary action, retraining, firing, and criminal charges (depending on the severity and number of offenses) the police have become corrupted from within. Until such processes are in place that corruption will never be removed.

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