Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#281

Post by nix23 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #277

nix23 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong...they probably don't know your IP..but a agency that has global surveillance in place, can find your source IP quite easy.

All typical attacks on Tor are known for many years already. If you follow the advises from the Tor website, it will be very hard (nearly impossible) to find you. What do you mean by "quite easy"?

By quite easy i mean, when you have global surveillance in place. All tor-nodes are public all tor-exits are public, if your system can track connections from one node to another node and then the exit-node everything is clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance#Infiltrati...

Edit: And that from netzpolitik (highly trusted german source) under 'A global passive adversary' that's the interesting part: https://netzpolitik.org/2017/secret-documents-reveal-german-...

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#282

Post by pwdisswordfish2 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #154

m12k wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you're ever asked why you're on Signal, just say you wanted to stay in touch with a programmer friend who's not on Facebook/WhatsApp, and they suggested Signal (that is now literally true as well - I suggest you try Signal, friend)

Couldn't you just say "I really like the user interface." Or "The logo looks cool." Or "It had 4 stars." Of "It had lots of good reviews."

How about "I searched for the term "private messaging" in Google Play Store database and Signal was the top result."

https://play.google.com/store/search?q=private+messaging

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#283

Post by cvburgess » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #168

What really hurts Signal are two things: * sub-par user experience: WhatsApp is just nicer and smoother, and people tend to like that * very few people understand that Signal DOES NOT get your full contact list, while Facebook (through WhatsApp) does Especially the second point is very relevant with the current situation — you do not necessarily want to expose your entire social graph to Facebook. But so few people u…

> WhatsApp is just nicer and smoother, and people tend to like that

Ive used both for a while and WhatsApp is aweful, at least on iOS by all standards I can find. Signal feels like iMessage with reactions, voice recordings, and handy tools. WhatsApp feels dated, clunky, and for groups it gets very very messy fast with out reactions.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#284

Post by Loughla » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

vincentmarle wrote: post #256

jrochkind1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law enforcement is talking to you in the U.S., the only right answer is "I'd prefer to have a laywer here." Not a joke, for real. They are experts at getting you to talk to them even if you know this. They are experts at getting you to say things that incriminate you or your friends -- that you or your friends have done nothing wrong (in your opinion/as far as you know) will not protect you. The only answers y…

I’ve heard this before but here’s my practical problem: I don’t know any lawyers. I have literally no idea who to call in such a situation. Do I have to go find and retain a lawyer beforehand just in case I might need one later?

It's not a bad idea to have a relationship with a lawyer. Talk to family/friends/co-workers. Somebody will have a name for you.

We made a relationship with one I found through family via estate planning (not his specialty) and land deals (not his specialty).

Now I have a name to say out loud when I interact with police. This has happened twice. The OP is right, they'll do everything they can to get you to talk, but understand that if a police officer is talking to you, they're digging for information to incriminate you. In my case, I was a witness to something, and they cuffed me and made me sit on the curb. No possible way I could've needed to be cuffed and questioned. And that was the approach my lawyer took when he came. Best $100 I ever spent.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#285

Post by wil421 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

vincentmarle wrote: post #256

jrochkind1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law enforcement is talking to you in the U.S., the only right answer is "I'd prefer to have a laywer here." Not a joke, for real. They are experts at getting you to talk to them even if you know this. They are experts at getting you to say things that incriminate you or your friends -- that you or your friends have done nothing wrong (in your opinion/as far as you know) will not protect you. The only answers y…

I’ve heard this before but here’s my practical problem: I don’t know any lawyers. I have literally no idea who to call in such a situation. Do I have to go find and retain a lawyer beforehand just in case I might need one later?

Most of the time police will arrest you, book you, and then you call a bail bondsmen to get get out or family/friend. Then you find a lawyer. Think DUI, assault, theft, drugs etc. Detectives won’t really question you but it’s still a good idea to say nothing to a street cop.

If you’re in serious trouble like a murder, financial or computer crime you’ll probably be questioned before you’re arrested. That’s the time to be silent and request a lawyer. You may start out with a 1-800 lawyer who will come and tell you to keep quiet. Later you can find a new one if needed.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#286

Post by kspacewalk2 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

hkh28 wrote: post #271

jrochkind1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law enforcement is talking to you in the U.S., the only right answer is "I'd prefer to have a laywer here." Not a joke, for real. They are experts at getting you to talk to them even if you know this. They are experts at getting you to say things that incriminate you or your friends -- that you or your friends have done nothing wrong (in your opinion/as far as you know) will not protect you. The only answers y…

You should actually be careful to say exactly this phrase: "I want a lawyer" and not a word more. > [W]hen a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to “just give me a lawyer dog,” the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a “lawyer dog,” and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02...

Okay, he was asking for a lawyer dog, and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel. If he kept his mouth shut otherwise, that would do him little harm.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#287

Post by nix23 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #275

jhauris wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many countries it isn't legal in, which is a shame. The ability to get an anonymous phone ought to be something people care about preserving.

It's illegal in the vast majority of countries [1] including Germany, France. Attempting to build a safe secure communication system around phone numbers that is suitable for situations like this, relying on them as being somehow anonymous, is just a complete non-starter. Even if you don't have to register the phone number, the cell provider will still know your location history. I think it just shows how America-cen…

Then just setup your own Signal-Server, if you don't want a connected number at all, OTR over tor is the way to go.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#288

Post by ardy42 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:50 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #244

m12k wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you're ever asked why you're on Signal, just say you wanted to stay in touch with a programmer friend who's not on Facebook/WhatsApp, and they suggested Signal (that is now literally true as well - I suggest you try Signal, friend)

If the law enforcement is talking to you in the U.S., the only right answer is "I'd prefer to have a laywer here." Not a joke, for real. They are experts at getting you to talk to them even if you know this. They are experts at getting you to say things that incriminate you or your friends -- that you or your friends have done nothing wrong (in your opinion/as far as you know) will not protect you. The only answers y…

> If the law enforcement is talking to you in the U.S., the only right answer is "I'd prefer to have a laywer here."

> Not a joke, for real.

Obligatory link to the fantastic "Don't Talk to the Police" lecture from the Regent University School of Law.

Watch the whole thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#289

Post by ardy42 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

soziawa wrote: post #142

gonehome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tradeoff is arguably a good thing. By using phone numbers as IDs signal can rely on your phone's local contacts (meaning they don't have to send your social graph to their servers). This way they can keep very little metadata on you. There's pretty much nothing for them to turn over except the fact that your phone number has the signal app. Most of the other secure apps could turn over your entire contact list (…

> Most of the other secure apps could turn over your entire contact list (which could be damaging for people in a protest that are being targeted). But that doesn't help much if the entire contact list is a list of trash mail adresses (in the case of Wire) or a list of random IDs (in the case of Threema). And at least Threema does not store any information about your contacts on their servers. Can you obtain a phone…

> Can you obtain a phone number without any ID in the US? Because you can't in large parts of Europe.

Yes. About 10 years ago, before Google Voice, I needed a local area-code number to work with my apartment buzzer. I bought a $15 Tracphone with cash at Walmart and activated it at a payphone (mainly just to see if I could).

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#290

Post by rconti » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

hjek wrote: post #220

soziawa wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point made by the parent commenter was that you can join any group (if you get someone to invite you) related to a certain topic and get the phone numbers of everyone in that group. I am not sure about the situation in the US, but in Europe almost all phone numbers are directly linked to a certain person and address by the provider.

> The point One of the points which, yes, I agree with, but I mainly responded to this: > I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it.\ > I am not sure about the situation in the US, but in Europe almost all phone numbers are directly linked to a certain person and address by the provider. Or you can go to a corner shop and buy a Lyca or Lebara SIM with…

I've had to provide "home" address and passport/identity docs to purchase SIM cards in Norway, Germany, and Italy. I believe Chile will not sell SIMs to non-citizens.

Off the top of my head, I think it was easier in France (although this was 16 years ago), Iceland, UK. I also recall it being easy in Aus/NZ. Fairly easy in the US as well, I believe, but as I'm a resident, I don't think too much about what address to use when having a prepaid SIM shipped to me, nor do I ever expect to have to show my papers for something like this. (although, of course, a postpaid account usually involves a credit inquiry, so ID docs would be used privately, not for government reasons, for what that's worth).