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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#181

Post by gambiting »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

>>In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home,

Where I live in the UK 100% of houses around me don't have a driveway(beauty of terraced houses). There's streets upon streets of these. The only way anyone is going to charge an electric car living in those is either at a public charging station elsewhere, or if the council installs some charge points(yeah, with what money lol).

Are you sure about the 95% number?

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#182

Post by mac01021 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #89
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

>Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers It sounds like policy written by the convenience stores (I assume some sort of convenience store owners special interest group or association exists in Germany). Their business model is they sell gas at approximately break even and make all their $$ on the store. They stand to lose big as things move electric. If they can get out in front of it and be the place where p…

I don't understand how convenience stores stay in business as it is. I never go into the store when I stop for gas. They do not sell anything I want.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#183

Post by gambiting »

cookiengineer wrote: post #158
tannhaeuser wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Do you have details to share, because I'd vaguely planned to equip my garage with electrical charging capability? I can assure you though that nobody is paying several hundred bucks per month for a garage or parking lot except maybe in the very city center of the four big cities in Germany, like next to the iconic main attraction of that city. It seems the public sector wants to grab the money for EV cha…

> Do you have details to share, because I'd vaguely planned to equip my garage with electrical charging capability? Where do you live? The regulations vary a lot from state to state and even city to city, as the local Bauamt or Baubehoerde usually has the last say when it comes to approval/denial of installations like this. In the BW area there's something available like the Netze-BW initiative that does most of the…

I'm guessing that while a proper type 2 charger might be impossible to install, but if you have a regular electrical socket you can just use a 3-pin "granny" charger. Sure it's slow but overnight it should be enough, and you don't have to ask anyone for permission for these.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#184

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Barrin92 wrote: post #98
deelowe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP said home, not house. This would include apartments.

This is how a typical German residential street looks ( https://reidiculoustravels.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/dsc_0... ) It's not really trivial to pack that full of chargers if you don't want to interfer with pedestrians or cyclists.

Like I said earlier, my father's family is German; there is a mix of residential situations and I wouldn't say the majority of them live in the scenario you are showing here with a densely packed street; and for the people who live like that, car ownership isn't strictly necessary.

Ideally we want people to not have to drive at all. Which is actually possible in most German cities. Last time I was visiting Mainz I was able to take trains and buses everywhere, including out into the countryside for a hike. This is a far better situation than anywhere in North America.

My Oma & Opa lived in suburban Mainz (Weisenhau) in an apartment building (with a parkade of some kind, don't recall the details as this was about 25 years ago) for decades before moving back downtown to a senior's residence. My aunt and uncle live in Mainz Laubenheim, in a single family home with a car parking pad in front for their vehicle. My other aunt lives in a building, she doesn't own or need to own a car really.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#185

Post by cmrdporcupine »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #159
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

It would make more sense to put them in supermarkets. Nobody wants to spend an hour sat in a petrol station drinking mediocre coffee. At least in a supermarket you are spending time doing something you would be doing anyway.

Exactly. We need L2 in every suburban wasteland parking lot, at every hub and spoke train station, etc. We need regulations enforcing charging in apartment building parking lots. New street construction should include L2 or L1 charging at streetlights.

But even more so, we need to reduce car usage regardless. Which is something Germany is ahead of Noth America on already.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#187

Post by 1bc29b36f623ba8 »

cheschire wrote: post #130
adrianN wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand why people live in places where you have to travel more than 30km to a supermarket.

Freedom from tyranny, perceived or otherwise. Cost. Preference for rural immersion. Social expectations.

Pretty much. We wanted a simple life and we got it. Only going to the supermarket twice a month saves a ton of money, and working remote saves me a lot since there's no commute.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#188

Post by nelgaard »

Barrin92 wrote: post #98
deelowe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP said home, not house. This would include apartments.

This is how a typical German residential street looks ( https://reidiculoustravels.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/dsc_0... ) It's not really trivial to pack that full of chargers if you don't want to interfer with pedestrians or cyclists.

Chargers are only small poles, not that big. And you do not need to pack the street full of chargers.

Just pust a few chargers that each charge two cars and reserve the the spots for electrical cars. When electrical cars get numerous add an hourly fee to motivate owners to move their cars when full charged.

This is how it looks at my place in Copenhagen: two charging stations each serving two cars.

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=55.70679767500985&lng=12....

But I also think charging at petrol stations make sense. When considering buying an electric car, at least if the family only have one car, it is a big issue if it can be used on long trips, even if you only do them a few times a year.

And if you are driving to Italy doing 90+ miles/h on the German highways then you will need to charge you vehicle several times. And you will not have time to get off the highway every time. But a 20 minute toilet and coffee break is acceptable.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#189

Post by woodandsteel »

The large perspective is that the transition to ev's is happening, with a thousand steps along the way. My guess is that by 2030 a considerable majority of new car sales will be ev's, and governments are going to have massive buy-back programs to get all the ice's off the road.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#190

Post by woodandsteel »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #43

This begs a larger question of how petroleum mega corps are going to weather the transition to electric vehicles. Looking at BP, margins are really poor. They have $22 Billion in cash vs. $11 Billion operating expenses and $24 Billion in debt. There is time: in March, 2% of new vehicles sold in Europe were BEV. On the other hand, the total spend on electricity per mile driven is 1/3 that of petrol. That means a compl…

I think the petroleum mega corps are all going to go bankrupt. Their value is all tied up in what are going to be stranded assets, and as a consequence their stock prices are going to crash and they will no longer be able to take out loans to finance new initiatives, most specifically expanding into renewable energy. And besides that they will be competing against RE companies with a huge head start. In the last couple of years the financial community has been slowly coming to the same conclusion.
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