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Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

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Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#161

Post by kabacha »

AnonC wrote: post #92

The biggest drawback with Signal for protesters is that it exposes the user's phone number to everyone else in groups (just like WhatsApp does). There is no way to even hide the fact that you have an account on Signal. I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it. If the authorities don't use tactics like they did in Hong Kong, the protesters may be safe…

Using phone number as ID has been proven idiotic since forever now. As much as I like Signal this is such a design flaw that it makes their software not only untrustable but often unusable too.

What's wrong with email logins?

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#162

Post by kilroy_jones »

m12k wrote: post #114
hjek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is not only used by protesters[0][1] so discovering that a phone number is connected to a Signal account by no means implies that the phone is used by a protester. [0]: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/23/deploye... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/tories-swit...

Yeah, if you're ever asked why you're on Signal, just say you wanted to stay in touch with a programmer friend who's not on Facebook/WhatsApp, and they suggested Signal (that is now literally true as well - I suggest you try Signal, friend)

No need to say anything really.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#163

Post by openfuture »

0xADEADBEE wrote: post #51

Long-time Signal user but I'm on the verge of moving I think. There are several UX shortcomings but the new PIN nag is a bridge too far. What are my options for alternatives? I imagine Telegram is the next best bet but very open to suggestions.

Wire, not phone number based and they are working on distributing their backend and making it FOSS. Client is already FOSSand they've been audited a few times iirc.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#164

Post by jwr »

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #31
matheusmoreira wrote: post #2

I hope one day apps like Signal will be the default for everyone , not just protesters in a time of crisis.

It's my default and over a few years I've pretty much converted everyone in my life except my mom

Sadly, Signal neglects user experience, and as a result people around me all tend to migrate to WhatsApp.

They don't care that they are uploading their entire contact list to Facebook — "death before inconvenience".

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#165

Post by siberianbear »

kabacha wrote: post #161
AnonC wrote: post #92

The biggest drawback with Signal for protesters is that it exposes the user's phone number to everyone else in groups (just like WhatsApp does). There is no way to even hide the fact that you have an account on Signal. I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it. If the authorities don't use tactics like they did in Hong Kong, the protesters may be safe…

Using phone number as ID has been proven idiotic since forever now. As much as I like Signal this is such a design flaw that it makes their software not only untrustable but often unusable too. What's wrong with email logins?

I'm no expert on the subject, but probably the use of phone numbers (and confirmation by SMS) is helpful to limit the number of bots.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#166

Post by numpad0 »

ves wrote: post #147
GlitchMr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that helps, there is a rate limit for checking whether a number is in Signal: with a single account, you can only check 4320 phone numbers a day. This makes mass user enumeration attacks somewhat less practical.

isn’t getting your hands on lots of sims/phone numbers, and thus Signal accounts, pretty trivial, though?

Trivial as ordering a 2U 16 blade GSM modem array from AliExpress, sure

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#167

Post by sarakayakomzin »

jabirali wrote: post #126
atoav wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it tho? It changed a lot during the last years and for most stuff I do with my friends (videocalls, textmessages, recorded speechmessages, pictures, videos, groupstuff, desktop app) it just works fine.

With the exception of desktop app, I agree :). The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend. The mobile apps, on the other hand, work really well. Been using them for years now, both on Android and iOS.

>The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend.

how do you want them to solve this? they store encrypted messages and those have to be decrypted on start. the more messages you have the longer it takes to initialize.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#168

Post by jwr »

What really hurts Signal are two things:

* sub-par user experience: WhatsApp is just nicer and smoother, and people tend to like that

* very few people understand that Signal DOES NOT get your full contact list, while Facebook (through WhatsApp) does

Especially the second point is very relevant with the current situation — you do not necessarily want to expose your entire social graph to Facebook. But so few people understand this, and even fewer grasp that Signal can still work without doing the same thing.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#169

Post by sorenjan »

AnonC wrote: post #92

The biggest drawback with Signal for protesters is that it exposes the user's phone number to everyone else in groups (just like WhatsApp does). There is no way to even hide the fact that you have an account on Signal. I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it. If the authorities don't use tactics like they did in Hong Kong, the protesters may be safe…

This was allegedly used by the authorities in Hong Kong during protests there in 2019, but using Telegram. Telegram responded by introducing a new setting that hides your number from people that aren't in your own contacts.

https://telegram.org/blog/scheduled-reminders-themes#new-pri...

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#170

Post by fsflover »

HenryBemis wrote: post #130
gonehome wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be that phone numbers are guaranteed to be unique IDs that (almost) every phone will have which simplifies things and reduces the risk of someone impersonating someone else. I think they are working on non-phone number IDs though (Moxie was in an earlier signal thread on HN recently and mentioned it).

In that spirit, emails (when discovered on a device) are also unique IDs. Even if someone's email is The-Dog@someprovider_dot_com authorities can still track that this mailbox was accessed by IP x.x.x.x and this IP is provided to phone number 555-12345 which belongs to Henry Bemis. It will take the authorities a bit more time (i.e. someone throws away their burner phone and authorities hack it)(with the assumption th…

You can access email only through Tor and they will never know your real IP.
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