Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#151

Post by loyukfai » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:09 AM UTC

bgee wrote: post #86

loyukfai wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp isn't installed by default AFAIK, but it is one of the first apps installed by millions, if not billions, on their phones. In Korea, Taiwan and Japan, LINE became the de facto IM. In China, WeChat. But ain't sure if these are usually/always preinstalled in those markets. Cheers.

In Korea I think the de facto IM is Kakao, LINE is only third (after FB messager) [0][1]. [0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/898254/south-korea-most-... [1]: https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-most-popular-messaging-ap...

Thanks.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#152

Post by lorenzhs » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:09 AM UTC

jabirali wrote: post #126

atoav wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it tho? It changed a lot during the last years and for most stuff I do with my friends (videocalls, textmessages, recorded speechmessages, pictures, videos, groupstuff, desktop app) it just works fine.

With the exception of desktop app, I agree :). The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend. The mobile apps, on the other hand, work really well. Been using them for years now, both on Android and iOS.

When did you last try it? Startup speed of Signal-Desktop has been much improved in recent months, like, by an order of magnitude. Maybe give it another shot.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#153

Post by RMPR » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:10 AM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #89

While I assume Signal is very good at keeping your neighbors and the like out of your business, I feel like the NSA must have some ways of getting in to signal if they want. Like if they have backdoors to get in to iPhones I assume they can replace the binary and get at your info. Idk after learning about the Snowden revelations I assume every computer is compromised. I mean didn’t x86 have unpatched vulnerabilities…

> While I assume Signal is very good at keeping your neighbors and the like out of your business, I feel like the NSA must have some ways of getting in to signal if they want.

'You have to go back in history, at least to the time when the devs dropped sms encryption and even earlier.

The main developer, in a matter of weeks, had turned from someone harassed by the TSA into a receipient of a major government grant ($13 mln). Then he received lucrative contracts with the “greatest” bastion of privacy, Facebook and affiliates. You don’t get that by accident. You get that by providing your own significant part of the bargain.'

https://forum.f-droid.org/t/we-can-include-signal-in-f-droid...

Just saying it's not the most unfounded theory out there.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#154

Post by pwdisswordfish2 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:12 AM UTC

m12k wrote: post #114

hjek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is not only used by protesters[0][1] so discovering that a phone number is connected to a Signal account by no means implies that the phone is used by a protester. [0]: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/23/deploye... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/tories-swit...

Yeah, if you're ever asked why you're on Signal, just say you wanted to stay in touch with a programmer friend who's not on Facebook/WhatsApp, and they suggested Signal (that is now literally true as well - I suggest you try Signal, friend)

Couldn't you just say "I really like the user interface."

Or "The logo looks cool."

Or "It had 4 stars."

Of "It had lots of good reviews."

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#155

Post by lorenzhs » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:13 AM UTC

AnonC wrote: post #100

sails wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was just release on iOS, Android has had it for a while https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007062012-Ne...

On iOS, Signal has implemented a data transfer from one device to another directly. It's of no use if one loses one's device or just hands over the old device to someone else before completing the setup of the new one (people are accustomed to setup a new device from backups in the cloud, which Signal won't support).

"Won't support" is wrong, this is explicitly on the roadmap, they've stated that multiple times. "Doesn't currently support" would be more accurate. For the technical aspects, secure cloud backups are going to be made possible with https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#156

Post by znpy » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

AnonC wrote: post #92

The biggest drawback with Signal for protesters is that it exposes the user's phone number to everyone else in groups (just like WhatsApp does). There is no way to even hide the fact that you have an account on Signal. I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it. If the authorities don't use tactics like they did in Hong Kong, the protesters may be safe…

Eh, you can't have everything.

Still, having a signal account doesn't make you a chargeable protester more than owning a gun makes you a chargeable assassin.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#157

Post by m12k » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

unicornporn wrote: post #144

hjek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is not only used by protesters[0][1] so discovering that a phone number is connected to a Signal account by no means implies that the phone is used by a protester. [0]: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/23/deploye... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/tories-swit...

That doesn't change the fact that all phone numbers are visible to all group members. All it takes is one rogue participant to reveal the identities of all members. If that actor has access to triangulation data they now have identity, location history, words and possibly images/video.

Yeah, it's optimized for communication between trusted parties (e.g. Snowden and a journalist) - as such the focus is on verifying the identity of the other person, not hiding it. It'd be cool if they figured out a group chat setting that was optimized for groups like protesters trying to coordinate - show your identity only to users you are directly connected with/have verified/whitelisted, but hide your identity to everyone else.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#158

Post by technion » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

unicornporn wrote: post #144

hjek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is not only used by protesters[0][1] so discovering that a phone number is connected to a Signal account by no means implies that the phone is used by a protester. [0]: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/23/deploye... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/tories-swit...

That doesn't change the fact that all phone numbers are visible to all group members. All it takes is one rogue participant to reveal the identities of all members. If that actor has access to triangulation data they now have identity, location history, words and possibly images/video.

I'm sure this is an underrated part of why discord became such a big thing in gaming communities. With so many toxic players and threats against a person so common, a good threat model would care a lot less about surveillance and a lot more about everyone seeing your phone number

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#159

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:27 AM UTC

znpy wrote: post #156

AnonC wrote: post #92

The biggest drawback with Signal for protesters is that it exposes the user's phone number to everyone else in groups (just like WhatsApp does). There is no way to even hide the fact that you have an account on Signal. I can add phone numbers by enumeration into my contacts and Signal will show who among my contacts is on it. If the authorities don't use tactics like they did in Hong Kong, the protesters may be safe…

Eh, you can't have everything. Still, having a signal account doesn't make you a chargeable protester more than owning a gun makes you a chargeable assassin.

> Eh, you can't have everything.

why not? Wire[1] doesn't tie your identity to your phone number. OpenWhisper devs too are aware of Signal's limitation (it was even discussed here on HN recently).

[1] https://github.com/wireapp

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#160

Post by upofadown » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:33 AM UTC

>Signal and other encrypted messaging apps offer limited protections. If police have access to an unlocked phone, they can still read any messages on it that haven’t been deleted.

In general, forward secrecy can't work if you insist on keeping the messages. If you truly want the messages to be gone for others you have to have to make them gone for you as well.