US schools lay off hundreds of thousands • Hacker News Board

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#171

Post by catalogia » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:35 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #151

mhh__ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could someone not make the same argument about the national defense? > national defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... I'm not as against military spending as some people, but almost 800 billion dollars is too much

$800 billion based on what? China spends $175 billion on their military. Compared to us, they get multiples in terms of manpower and infrastructure per dollar spent. Then there is Russia. As a percentage of GDP, we spend less on defense than France did in 1994, and half of what France spent in 1960.

> $800 billion based on what? China spends $175 billion on their military. Compared to us, they get multiples in terms of manpower and infrastructure per dollar spent.

Or a fraction of the capability..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy#Classification...

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#172

Post by iancmceachern » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:38 AM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #85

mhh__ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could someone not make the same argument about the national defense? > national defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... I'm not as against military spending as some people, but almost 800 billion dollars is too much

How much would be appropriate? What weapons systems should be canceled? Serious question. I would agree that $800B seems ridiculously high, and yet it's not easy to tease apart what should be cut.

There is hundreds of millions in over the top research. Some of which is good stuff that moves us forward, but do we really need a Boeing X37 separate from NASA? Are we really getting our research money's worth when no one is allowed to know about, talk about, or otherwise leverage technologies developed?

One of my favorite parts about Apollo and Kennedys involvement specifically is the very deliberate choice to make it a civil program. The question wasn't if we needed to put effort into demonstrating superiority in space or not. The question was to do it as a military or civil program.

Point is, a country can accomplish a lot of the same things in different ways just by varying to which government agency we give resources.

I would rather go to space on a peaceful, multi country mission, not on a military weapon. I also would rather give our public resources to first responders, medical workers, emts, fire fighters and other civil servants than to our military. We reap what we sow.

Edited - typo

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#173

Post by pfranz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #156

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much would be appropriate? What weapons systems should be canceled? Serious question. I would agree that $800B seems ridiculously high, and yet it's not easy to tease apart what should be cut.

Whatever funding goes to military displays at sporting events can be cut for once. We never had flyovers and 7th-inning-stretch-salutes-to-heroes 20 years ago.

The argument that always comes up is that those flights are necessary because they're flight time required for training and public events are recruiting tools since we have a volunteer force.

However, reducing the number of pilots/planes mean fewer training missions and reducing the military headcount reduces the need for recruitment.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#174

Post by culturestate » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:56 AM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #148

culturestate wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, "there are two oceans between us and any potential aggressors" is no longer a viable defensive posture. If you're gonna be drawn into a war today it's unlikely to come with years of lead time.

Here's what would happen if any nation would be stupid enough to send a single missile into US soil: a button is pressed and a nuke 1000x stronger than Hiroshima is sent. The end of "war". U.S. has been involved in quite a number of wars in the last century. Always as an aggressor, never as a defendant. Let's not entertain the fantasy that a military budget of $732 billion, the size of 10 next biggest budgets combine…

> Let's not entertain the fantasy that a military budget of $732 billion...exists to defend US soil from invasion.

Obviously not in its entirety, but it's also worth recognizing that the world is a different place in 2020 than it was in 1940 and that no country - the United States or otherwise - can afford to purchase a national defense at the last minute. Once you realize you need one, it's already too late.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#175

Post by pfranz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 6:04 AM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #90

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should be opposed to nationalizing education. A common curriculum would help mobility when it comes to families moving across state lines. It would also ensure uniform funding and plentiful opportunities to poorer and rural schools.

That’s an idea that’s popular with no one. People want local control. And if you want local control, you have to pay for it. Utah spends $7k per student and New York spends $22K and that’s the way they want it.

Funny you should bring up Utah. I recently heard they don't fund education by county-based property tax. Because of that education state wide is fairly equitable.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#176

Post by culturestate » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 6:08 AM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #136

culturestate wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, "there are two oceans between us and any potential aggressors" is no longer a viable defensive posture. If you're gonna be drawn into a war today it's unlikely to come with years of lead time.

Anericans live so scared!

I think there's a difference between living scared and living...I guess pragmatically. I'm not worried that e.g. Russia is going to drop a missile into midtown Manhattan, but I do acknowledge that there are real threats in the world and - for the moment at least - we can't all just get along.

If the United States changed its military posture tomorrow to be strictly isolationist and brought every soldier home, someone else would step into the void. That may not necessarily be a bad thing, but it would be a different thing and at this point few people are seriously interested in finding out what kind of thing it would be.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#177

Post by pfranz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #86

yalogin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the US pays for national defense only to fund corporations continuously with unneeded weapon manufacturing so that the respective politicians in those districts can keep winning. There is really no national defense reasons there.

What's an example of an unneeded weapons system?

It was pretty widely circulated that tanks were still being manufactured that were not wanted by the military:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/army-says-no-to-more-tanks-...

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#178

Post by asdff » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 6:29 AM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #85

mhh__ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could someone not make the same argument about the national defense? > national defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... I'm not as against military spending as some people, but almost 800 billion dollars is too much

How much would be appropriate? What weapons systems should be canceled? Serious question. I would agree that $800B seems ridiculously high, and yet it's not easy to tease apart what should be cut.

I'd take a hard look at the contractor system for one. The military industrial complex is set up to extract massive profit out of the public purse. There is no reason why the defense departments at boeing et al. shouldn't be nationalized imo.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#179

Post by _nalply » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 7:21 AM UTC

makeitrein wrote: post #58

Just watched Bryan Caplan give a talk about how the majority of our education system's resources are spent towards a "signaling arms race". What once required a high school diploma requires an undergraduate degree. What once required an undergraduate degree requires graduate school. Most of your time spend in school is learning skills that the labor market cares little for. Not wholly convinced by his conclusion that…

Education should also have the task to form the adolescent, to make them fit for life, i. e. resilient and happy. Signaling might become less and less successful and neccessary as decades pass.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#180

Post by Godel_unicode » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #148

culturestate wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, "there are two oceans between us and any potential aggressors" is no longer a viable defensive posture. If you're gonna be drawn into a war today it's unlikely to come with years of lead time.

Here's what would happen if any nation would be stupid enough to send a single missile into US soil: a button is pressed and a nuke 1000x stronger than Hiroshima is sent. The end of "war". U.S. has been involved in quite a number of wars in the last century. Always as an aggressor, never as a defendant. Let's not entertain the fantasy that a military budget of $732 billion, the size of 10 next biggest budgets combine…

Apparently December 7th 1941 no longer lives in infamy.