US schools lay off hundreds of thousands • Hacker News Board

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#111

Post by vkou » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:26 AM UTC

RhysU wrote: post #54

malwarebytess wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could someone not make the same argument about the national defense? The US's definition of National Defense is actually playing world police for corporate profit. With that in mind it shows that they are superficially similar only.

National Defense is a luxury good until it isn't. Moreover, it is not something that can be purchased on short notice.

America's national defense is two oceans and two thousand ICBMs.

The rest of its military budget is largely spent on its imperial ambitions.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#112

Post by chadash » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

abootstrapper wrote: post #79

buzzkillington wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Education is funded largely by local taxes, and local tax revenues are being gutted, so there isn't much that can be done here without nationalizing public education. This should be the case. Having each state decide it's education is in the long term more dangerous than having each state have it's own army. Imagine if half the country had textbooks that made the Confederates out to be misguided but well meaning...…

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I’m from the south and was taught as a child that the confederates fought for “states rights” and slavery was a subplot. Many years later I realized that was bullshit. I wished I could go back in time and call my teacher on it.

It was fought over states rights. Their rights to allow slaves.

Misleading, but not exactly untrue.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#113

Post by thrown2020 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #26

Open up already. The lockdown has been a sham, with scientists and researchers already acknowledging no difference between areas that locked down and areas that didn’t. Enough is enough. How much more suffering does the world need to endure over bad models and bad policy.

[dead]

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#114

Post by tyoma » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:28 AM UTC

verst wrote: post #53

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should be opposed to nationalizing education. A common curriculum would help mobility when it comes to families moving across state lines. It would also ensure uniform funding and plentiful opportunities to poorer and rural schools.

Even shorter term I'd like us to move away from local property taxes being used for local schools. The state government should have a statewide pool of money they allocate to schools based on enrollment numbers, cost of living. This should be sufficiently funded such that teachers can make a living wage in the local school district. Those who don't like this can still send their kids to private schools.

Several states already follow effectively this model.

California is one of them: the state ensures each school district is funded based on enrollment, with some correction for poverty and English learners.

Oregon is another state where schools are largely state funded.

Hawaii has one school district for the whole state.

Illinois and a few other states have a robin-hood like system where money is redistributed to poorer districts to meet a set baseline.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#115

Post by culturestate » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:28 AM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #87

RhysU wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National Defense is a luxury good until it isn't. Moreover, it is not something that can be purchased on short notice.

The ONE TIME that US national defense actually worked it was very much purchased on short notice.

Unfortunately, "there are two oceans between us and any potential aggressors" is no longer a viable defensive posture. If you're gonna be drawn into a war today it's unlikely to come with years of lead time.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#116

Post by ludston » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:29 AM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #85

mhh__ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could someone not make the same argument about the national defense? > national defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... I'm not as against military spending as some people, but almost 800 billion dollars is too much

How much would be appropriate? What weapons systems should be canceled? Serious question. I would agree that $800B seems ridiculously high, and yet it's not easy to tease apart what should be cut.

Deciding that would be the job of the military wouldn't it? That's how cuts usually work. If they need some random on HN to tell them how to do that then they probably shouldn't have the job in the first place.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#117

Post by jay_kyburz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:29 AM UTC

npunt wrote: post #40

tengbretson wrote: post #25

It's odd to me that there is this bizarre certainty on hacker news that within 20 years the most common occupation, truck driving, will be nearly entirely obsolete, yet in an era where almost all human knowledge is available online for free, the idea that the education apparatus will either stay the same or continue to grow is somehow a given.

That's because if you know anything about education, you know it's about human relationships as much as it is about pouring knowledge into empty vessels.

I actually think the are two separate concepts, and I'm pretty sure a AI could teach kids the times tables and test spelling.

My kids know a hell of a lot about the video games they play, and they didn't need a human relationship to tech them how everything works.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#118

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:30 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #76

makeitrein wrote: post #58

Just watched Bryan Caplan give a talk about how the majority of our education system's resources are spent towards a "signaling arms race". What once required a high school diploma requires an undergraduate degree. What once required an undergraduate degree requires graduate school. Most of your time spend in school is learning skills that the labor market cares little for. Not wholly convinced by his conclusion that…

Funding education through employer taxes based on the education requirements they desire was an idea that I heard that might have some merit. You want someone with a bachelors? You pay X amount per year for that employee. A masters? Even more. You expose the employer to the cost of their desire, and thereby suss out if it is a want or a genuine need. Very similar to carbon taxes. If the tax is more expensive than on…

Would that alter employer behavior or just job descriptions?

They could just set their employer talent management system to filter out applicants without those degrees.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#119

Post by bradlys » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:30 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #88

woofie11 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of promising prototypes. The original MITx / 6.002x had in the nineties rate it as being as-good-as or better than in-person. OLI before that had good prototypes too. The low-quality junk came in scaling. Part of that had to do with culture and people (business people took over from academics). Part of that with economics (people didn't shop on quality). Part on difficulty training. Etc.

The problem is not in information quality. I agree that is a solved problem. But that was never the big challenge in education (besides the politics of it). The problem is in getting students to complete the work, be honestly assessed about the work, get feedback on their work as well as for employers to believe that the assessment means anything.

> The problem is not in information quality.

Information quality can be interpreted many ways. I wouldn't say most teachers are good at their job or at presenting information. Most I had were not good at the job - a lot of them were babysitters and acted as such. At the college level, it's possibly worse where the people are so consumed with their research that they have absolutely no interest in teaching or getting good at it.

Textbooks are also very poor quality. History textbooks are probably the worst offenders.

Re: US schools lay off hundreds of thousands

#120

Post by dorchadas » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 3:31 AM UTC

blueblisters wrote: post #106

dorchadas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a teacher myself, and I think this is very much needed. Right now, good neighborhoods just get better schools, while bad neighborhoods get worse. It's a horribly vicious circle, and shows even in areas where there's only one school (my county, the 5th biggest in the state, only has 25k people and one high school) if there's a huge amount of poverty (something like 65% of our students are on free or reduced lunch;…

When I moved to the US, this was one of the things that surprised me the most. I found it really odd that my coworkers would look for homes based on how good the schools were in that neighborhood. The fact that all kids don't get equal opportunity makes it feel like a very broken society.

I agree. I also think it fosters a sense of anti-intellectualism in those schools that are poorer as well. I've noticed the difference in my hometown (where I now teach) in the 10 years since I've graduated. I've talked about it with another teacher who went to school there as well (I will say, that's one thing they're good at; they usually hire locals, for better or worse). My mom was a teacher there for 30 years as well, as she's seen it too.

I don't live in the district I teach in, but I've already said that if I'm still teaching there (a big if) and have kids (another big if), I won't send them there if they're academically inclined. The school is routinely trying to gut AP classes in favor of "dual credit" (which is a joke) and they're removing normal accelerated classes for increased 'rigor' in others; which doesn't happen, as you get accelerated kids mixed in with kids in a collaborative class because the guidance doesn't care enough to separate them, and then we're also forced to cater to the lowest common denominator by administration as well... And "differentiated learning" just basically becomes "Oh, you're smart, here's another worksheet". It's, sadly, becoming a race to the bottom, and it's something the more wealthy schools in the area I live at wouldn't have.