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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#61

Post by zizee »

prawn wrote: post #37
zizee wrote: post #9

This seems a bit unfair/cruel considering electric cars will probably decimate petrol stations. Most people will charge at home, or when parked at their destination (like work). Edit: Curious to know why this comment is unpopular?

Those petrol stations are going to cop it eventually anyway. This just encourages them to hang a cable out the window to provide some incentive for EV owners caught short. In preparation for the end of pumping gas as we know it, petrol stations in Australia have replaced the corner shops, delicatessens, etc. We don't have a single 7/11 in South Australia.

It would make much more sense for Germany to pay for (or mandate) the installation of electric car chargers at supermarkets and at strategic parking spots in cities. Petrol stations will cease to exist, along with all those mandated chargers.

> petrol stations in Australia have replaced the corner shops

Are petrol stations somehow responsible for consumer habits? What about sky-high residential realestate prices that make cornershops too expensive to open? Or low density housing that Australian cities are known for?

> We don't have a single 7/11 in South Australia.

There are plenty of convience stores in Adelaide, including ezimart and nightowl. Perhaps 7/11 franchisee fees are too high?

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#62

Post by jussij »

sib wrote: post #10
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electric-car charging stations that I have seen at petrol stations elsewhere in Europe are not actually maintained by the petrol station. Rather, it appears that the petrol stations just allow charging-station brands to rent a portion of their plots of land to erect their infrastructure on. Consequently, requiring car charging at all petrol stations, instead of being a financial burden, may actually allow them to…

If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

The owners of the gas stations would see greater economic benefit if EVs did not become popular.

So you could argue it's would be in the best interest of the owners to not allowing charging stations, as that would help to slow the uptake of EVs.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#63

Post by rsynnott »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

The EU has mandated CCS, so it’s not a particular kind, it will soon be the only kind.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#64

Post by qayxc »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

  Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...]
You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate...

The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment.

In cities in particular (you know, the places where EVs make the most sense), many people don't have a garage - often not even a dedicated parking spot.

This is an actual problem that prevents many people from owning an EV in Germany.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#65

Post by willio58 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

As an American, I'm jealous of this policy. If all gas stations in the US were required to provide EV charging, there would be a significant uptick in EV adoption. Even if they don't end up getting used, the value is in the peace-of-mind for people currently on the edge of making the switch to EVs. It's a great way to encourage EV adoption, second only to straight cash incentives.

Another thing to consider is the assumption that home charging is always feasible. I would love an EV, but it simply doesn't make sense where I rent.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#66

Post by dathinab »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

Honestly if we look what currently works best for electric cars is:

- short/mid distance (city/metro area/village cluster/...) - personal charger, often implying personal parking slot

In which case indeed gas stations become complete obsolete.

But if electric cars become more wide spread then there will be many cases of people without personal parking slots using them and fast chargers in super marked parking slots and similar are still rare. Especially people traveling inside of Germany. So gas stations with chargers are still somewhat useful.

I believe enforcing chargers on gas stations will allow easier adoption outside of the "personal parking slot sharing only case", especially they make electric cars more reliable for holiday/weekend/busisness trips inside of Germany.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#67

Post by rsynnott »

zizee wrote: post #9

This seems a bit unfair/cruel considering electric cars will probably decimate petrol stations. Most people will charge at home, or when parked at their destination (like work). Edit: Curious to know why this comment is unpopular?

Oh, dear, cruelty to BP.

I think I’ll live.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#68

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

jussij wrote: post #62
sib wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

The owners of the gas stations would see greater economic benefit if EVs did not become popular. So you could argue it's would be in the best interest of the owners to not allowing charging stations, as that would help to slow the uptake of EVs.

As I mentioned, already petrol stations in many countries do not actually profit from the sale of petrol since margins are so low. Rather, their profits stem largely from the attached convenience store.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#69

Post by prawn »

zizee wrote: post #61
prawn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those petrol stations are going to cop it eventually anyway. This just encourages them to hang a cable out the window to provide some incentive for EV owners caught short. In preparation for the end of pumping gas as we know it, petrol stations in Australia have replaced the corner shops, delicatessens, etc. We don't have a single 7/11 in South Australia.

It would make much more sense for Germany to pay for (or mandate) the installation of electric car chargers at supermarkets and at strategic parking spots in cities. Petrol stations will cease to exist, along with all those mandated chargers. > petrol stations in Australia have replaced the corner shops Are petrol stations somehow responsible for consumer habits? What about sky-high residential realestate prices that…

7/11 exists in WA and the eastern states so it might not be franchise fees. In Adelaide, OTR is a dominant brand, putting a petrol station in a corner location along with quick essentials, coffee, fast food, etc.

Yes, of course real estate costs and subsequently rent make small business difficult here.

City chargers with a time limit would make sense also. I've seen them in various places here and abroad. One advantage of having them at petrol stations (convenience stores in the future) is that people don't hang around as long.

Last year when I was at a shopping centre in Century City LA, there was a line to use the superchargers that would've been 10+ cars long. They might need to add dozens of chargers to deal with future demand if people are shopping for 90 minutes.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#70

Post by caf »

londons_explore wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

In europe most the cars don't support proper (>100kW) fast charging, and even those that do have a myraid of incompatible standards.

On the other hand most of the cars have a smaller battery than a Model S, which works the other way (eg a Model 3 SR charges in about half those times).

Haven't EVs outside of China basically standardised on either CCS2 or CHaDeMo? (it's also pretty easy for a charger to support both).

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