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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#21

Post by KorematsuFred »

cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Sadly, gas stations remain heavily regulated in many parts of the world when in reality they should not be treated much differently from say a bakery or restaurant.

What Germany has done here is bit comparable to say forcing a burger joint to offer vegan options or a juice joint to serve alcohol for no reason other than pandering to the niche users.

Gas stations might not even be ideal providers of charging stations, other business such as restaurants, malls, salons, etc. where people spend a lot of time are more better suited to provide charging stations and in fact they already do.

This sort of government coercion is another reason why I think electric car ownership or general move to cleaner fuels will be seen with skepticism by many people like me.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#22

Post by zdragnar »

freeone3000 wrote: post #16
ben_w wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil is in the details. If all stations must have “a” charger of no specified performance, that’s not going to be much of a burden given current ownership levels. That said, this is designed to increase BEV ownership levels, which might lead to large queues if the stations all only have one charger… but that would lead to natural economic incentives for fast chargers and more of them even without government incentiv…

Yes, exactly. When gasoline powered vehicles were rolled out, we didn't start with a coast-to-coast network of gas stations, but we did have sufficient farmers willing to sell gas to make it mostly work. This could prove the same benefit for electrics - "some plug somewhere" is enough to eliminate most range problems for long trips, and once it's there...

Gas powered tractors were a life changing upgrade over horse and ox drawn plows. Electric is, in comparison, a very minor change for daily living.

It is also a downgrade for long haul trips, depending on how long of breaks you take while driving.

That being said, I might buy an electric truck to replace my work truck once I can afford it.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#23

Post by nraynaud »

lighthazard wrote: post #5
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

I do wonder how the logistics of this will work in small gas stations. They will now need a dedicated spot for each port. Also now need amenities to support riders who are waiting for their car to charge.

There is no small gas stations in Western Europe, only networks, franchises and supermarkets.

With such a big range, we don’t need a lot of gas stations anymore (it’s more like the square term in the coverage of an area makes the number of gas stations extremely sensitive to the average range, but long story short, we need less and less of them)

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#25

Post by aaomidi »

sib wrote: post #10
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electric-car charging stations that I have seen at petrol stations elsewhere in Europe are not actually maintained by the petrol station. Rather, it appears that the petrol stations just allow charging-station brands to rent a portion of their plots of land to erect their infrastructure on. Consequently, requiring car charging at all petrol stations, instead of being a financial burden, may actually allow them to…

If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

People are very slow to adapt to change. Even when there is an economic advantage to them.

A failing of modern economic theory, assuming that every entity acts logically and in their best interest.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#26

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

In europe most the cars don't support proper (>100kW) fast charging, and even those that do have a myraid of incompatible standards.

[deleted]

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#27

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

In europe most the cars don't support proper (>100kW) fast charging, and even those that do have a myraid of incompatible standards.

[deleted]

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#28

Post by raphaelj »

vazamb wrote: post #14
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Petrol stations in Germany make almost no money on petrol. I think it was something along the lines of 2-3 cents/liter. I am quite sure that they will be happy to have customers stay in their shop for longer.

That's still quite some decent margin. It takes about 5 minutes for me to fill my 40L tank, which would be about 1€. Everything is automated, there is absolutely no human involved, and it works 24/24.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#29

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

vazamb wrote: post #14
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Petrol stations in Germany make almost no money on petrol. I think it was something along the lines of 2-3 cents/liter. I am quite sure that they will be happy to have customers stay in their shop for longer.

Good for them. Even more ugly coffee from shabby machines at inflated prices :)

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#30

Post by toomuchtodo »

londons_explore wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

In europe most the cars don't support proper (>100kW) fast charging, and even those that do have a myraid of incompatible standards.

Which is odd! Tesla has covered most of Europe with Superchargers, and supports 250kw charge rates in many locations. Curious why other automakers don’t support higher charge rates.
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