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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#11

Post by ben_w »

cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Devil is in the details. If all stations must have “a” charger of no specified performance, that’s not going to be much of a burden given current ownership levels.

That said, this is designed to increase BEV ownership levels, which might lead to large queues if the stations all only have one charger… but that would lead to natural economic incentives for fast chargers and more of them even without government incentives or extra laws.

And charging points could — in principle at least, I’m no civil engineer — go in any parking place too, so there’s room for more entrepreneurs make up for the need for more places to park and wait to recharge.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#12

Post by ben_w »

sib wrote: post #10
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electric-car charging stations that I have seen at petrol stations elsewhere in Europe are not actually maintained by the petrol station. Rather, it appears that the petrol stations just allow charging-station brands to rent a portion of their plots of land to erect their infrastructure on. Consequently, requiring car charging at all petrol stations, instead of being a financial burden, may actually allow them to…

If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

> Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. > If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

Cause and effect. It would be profitable if there were enough BEVs, and there would be enough BEVs if people weren’t afraid they might not be able to find somewhere to recharge.

At least, that’s the logic.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

adad95 wrote: post #3

How that would work? I park my car in the petrol station and return 8hours later?

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#14

Post by vazamb »

cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Petrol stations in Germany make almost no money on petrol. I think it was something along the lines of 2-3 cents/liter. I am quite sure that they will be happy to have customers stay in their shop for longer.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#15

Post by partiallypro »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

The electric-car charging stations that I have seen at petrol stations elsewhere in Europe are not actually maintained by the petrol station. Rather, it appears that the petrol stations just allow charging-station brands to rent a portion of their plots of land to erect their infrastructure on. Consequently, requiring car charging at all petrol stations, instead of being a financial burden, may actually allow them to…

Right, but the infrastructure isn't free. How long would it take a remote gas station to make their money back on the equipment alone?

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#16

Post by freeone3000 »

ben_w wrote: post #11
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Devil is in the details. If all stations must have “a” charger of no specified performance, that’s not going to be much of a burden given current ownership levels. That said, this is designed to increase BEV ownership levels, which might lead to large queues if the stations all only have one charger… but that would lead to natural economic incentives for fast chargers and more of them even without government incentiv…

Yes, exactly. When gasoline powered vehicles were rolled out, we didn't start with a coast-to-coast network of gas stations, but we did have sufficient farmers willing to sell gas to make it mostly work. This could prove the same benefit for electrics - "some plug somewhere" is enough to eliminate most range problems for long trips, and once it's there...

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#17

Post by londons_explore »

ben_w wrote: post #11
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Devil is in the details. If all stations must have “a” charger of no specified performance, that’s not going to be much of a burden given current ownership levels. That said, this is designed to increase BEV ownership levels, which might lead to large queues if the stations all only have one charger… but that would lead to natural economic incentives for fast chargers and more of them even without government incentiv…

"Have an outlet on the end of a lead through the window of the shop and plugged in next to the cash register..."

"Yes sir, it's an EV charger. It takes 3 days to charge your car"

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#18

Post by londons_explore »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
adad95 wrote: post #3

How that would work? I park my car in the petrol station and return 8hours later?

My Model S charges in 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger when not at home (very occasionally 40 min if I’m on a road trip and am charging to 100% state of charge). One of the grocery stores we frequent has a Supercharger station. Mandate DC fast charging.

In europe most the cars don't support proper (>100kW) fast charging, and even those that do have a myraid of incompatible standards.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#19

Post by pengaru »

cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

It's an additional revenue stream from parking spots and will likely stimulate more sales from the store during the wait.

I fully expect the future to have charging stations pretty much everywhere there's parking, power, and demand. If gas stations are clogged up by EV charging, it won't be long before charging spots are popping up everywhere to capitalize on it.

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