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Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

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Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#101

Post by divslinger »

bob1029 wrote: post #42
mesozoic wrote: post #32

There is more to being a software engineer than coding.

Most of software engineering is about the code that you didn't write. There is an infinite amount of hypothetical code that you could write, and every line of code is a liability. I strongly feel like starting lesson 0 with hello world or any other coding activity is a huge mistake if we are actually talking about trying to ramp someone with zero technical background. A more ideal start would be to run with a problem…

This explains why I get stuck when trying to build something on my own. I don't abstractly work through the reasoning as you said.

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#102

Post by cosmodisk »

zero_shift wrote: post #90
thomspoon wrote: post #36

Software engineering is more than just software development. Writing requirements, drafting documentation, testing, verification, maintenance. I hate to be hypercritical, but five weeks of javascript doesn’t make you a software engineer.

I'm struggling to add this all up. On the one hand, I have some evidence that my job is hard: I have spent ten years learning to be proficient at it, still know only a narrow slice of it, and find it challenging every day. I have a solid degree from a world-renowned university, so I know I am not stupid. I also interview candidates, and know that many applicants simply cannot do the job. But on the other hand, there…

There's space for everybody. I do programming ( not full time) at work: usually it's simple queries against the database and business logic around the returned collection. Sometimes it's a bit more complicated and then I have to do an integration with an external system. Would I be able to write some traffic optimization algorithm for Netflix? Not a chance. Would I be able to help an average SMB by automating some of their processes? Absolutely. Someone is sitting in a fancy office on the 50th floor in Manhattan writing some heavily optimized code for a bank making $1M/year, while some other is doing simple PHP plugins for WordPress in some sweatshop. Both are called programmers. Same with bankers: one you meet at your local bank branch who doesn't even know what nostro account is, while other is doing some M&A trying to pull billion dollar companies together. It doesn't matter how many schools, bootcamps,or even leet universities will open,the fact that probably less than 0.01% of general population could barely become mediocre developers won't change any time soon.

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#103

Post by [deleted] »

shawndrost wrote: post #99
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #83

This is like saying "learn to read a schematic to become an electrical engineer." There's a hell of a lot more to engineering than that. Couldn't they at least have said "learn coding to become a programmer?"

Oh hello, guy that complains about the way that the term "software engineer" is used! Outside of your head, the job title "Software Engineer" is mainly used to describe computer programmers that do not do formal engineering. The battle to "protect" the term (as a designator of formal "engineer" status) has already been fought and definitively lost. As such: Regardless of what C0D3 or its students desire, any successf…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#105

Post by cosmodisk »

divslinger wrote: post #101
bob1029 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of software engineering is about the code that you didn't write. There is an infinite amount of hypothetical code that you could write, and every line of code is a liability. I strongly feel like starting lesson 0 with hello world or any other coding activity is a huge mistake if we are actually talking about trying to ramp someone with zero technical background. A more ideal start would be to run with a problem…

This explains why I get stuck when trying to build something on my own. I don't abstractly work through the reasoning as you said.

If you struggle to put it all together,try to flip it and deconstruct. For instance, you want to build a website that pulls trending tweets from twitter's API. Think of it as a whole,i.e. some scrolling boxes showing tweets,maybe a list that keeps growing.Then think how would you go about pulling tweet data from the API.Then how would you store it.How you would read each tweet and show it on the screen and etc. Suddenly,each individual part become much more manageable.

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#106

Post by yjhoney »

poma88 wrote: post #98
songzme wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you type in a username / email with an uppercase letter? that's the only issue we've discovered so far with the signup process.

Nope. The links you send for password recovery are also again outdated on arrival.

what is your username? We will make sure this gets sorted out.

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#108

Post by songzme »

lquist wrote: post #104

# Why Learn JS? JavaScript is the only language that lets you do every aspect of technology. This is misleading at best.

I agree, I haven't had time to revisit it to improve the wording, will do it tonight. This is really what I meant:

Our decision behind JavaScript:

We want our students to understand technology at a conceptual level first, end to end:

1. Client side - Mobile, web, terminal 2. Server side - Database interactions, system design and optimization 3. Batch - ML models and scripting

AFAIK, JavaScript is the only language that is able to cover everything end to end (front end to backend to scripting to even ML) so I'm able to come up with appropriate exercises for each of the moving parts.

Afterwards, they should pickup domain specific language that optimizes for each task.

I think it may be too overwhelming for students to learn different languages and learn the high level concepts at the same time.

Unfortunately, there may be more instances of word choices. Each lesson is about 4-5k words (totaling 30k) and I simply don't have enough time to think critically on every word so feedback like these helps. Feel free to bring these up in the chatroom and help us improve our wording!

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#109

Post by MattGaiser »

zero_shift wrote: post #90
thomspoon wrote: post #36

Software engineering is more than just software development. Writing requirements, drafting documentation, testing, verification, maintenance. I hate to be hypercritical, but five weeks of javascript doesn’t make you a software engineer.

I'm struggling to add this all up. On the one hand, I have some evidence that my job is hard: I have spent ten years learning to be proficient at it, still know only a narrow slice of it, and find it challenging every day. I have a solid degree from a world-renowned university, so I know I am not stupid. I also interview candidates, and know that many applicants simply cannot do the job. But on the other hand, there…

> But on the other hand, there is such a sheer volume of resources like this, which imply very clearly that becoming a programmer is a trivial thing.

It takes a few weeks to get to the first level. None of the people coming out of these bootcamps are building secure software at scale.

Imagine if you wanted to become a house builder. Coding bootcamps teach you to build a doghouse, which is easy to learn within a few weeks. People will pay for doghouses, so you may as well start there.

Over time, you build sheds, barns, and then move on to homes.

Re: Show HN: C0D3 – A free, interactive site to learn coding

#110

Post by yjhoney »

brlewis wrote: post #73
songzme wrote: post #2

Last year, I mentored a few students who are learning coding to become a software engineer from non-traditional backgrounds. Rather than encouraging them to leetcode and practice for interviews, I taught them software engineering practices and mentored them to build c0d3.com together as a team. c0d3.com will be a free learning site where other students like them can learn coding and then help improve the site. As a s…

This looks awesome and has certainly piqued my curiosity. How long has the beta group been going? Do you have an idea of retention rate yet? And for those who drop out, why?

This beta group has been going on for a year, early 2019. Our retention rate is really poor, until today's posting about 400 signups and only 8 made it to the end. The current first phase is actually to answer this question:

"For the students that complete the whole curriculum, could they contribute to a codebase that users use and follow good coding practices like an engineer would?"

The answer is yes, so now we have a happy path. Next phase is to increase this funnel.

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