Anxiety in product development • Hacker News Board

Re: Anxiety in product development

#101

Post by cmehdy » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #72

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I find that emotional compartmentalization is a critical skill. A couple years ago, I faced a very tough time in my life. My business was collapsing, my family's finances were in jeopardy, and there was a serious health issue going on. The emotional stress was incapacitating. I couldn't sleep, let alone focus enough to fix my problems. It was the downward spiral nightmare scenario. If I didn't have dependents (wife +…

It's pretty useful for most day-to-day things, but (1) who you are can absolutely be changed by external circumstances - see TBIs and other long-lasting traumas, and (2) there are medical illnesses where you can be mostly robbed of your ideas - which by this mantra leaves you powerless to change your world.

I'm not saying that to take away anything from the well-being brought by this interesting personal prayer, because it holds some insights about resilience. Only adding some context for the people out there whose depressive disorders, schizophrenia, or brain injuries, could leave them on the curb when it comes to these thoughts. Those people might need surgeries, medical treatment, or external support, before being able to strengthen themselves with this sort of thought.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#102

Post by georgeecollins » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

I loved the Permit A38 (too much specification and process) description.

I once came into an app project that was really bogged down. The team was good, but inexperienced, as was the management. The devs weren't doing anything. When I came on they said they told me there were no specs for what they should work on. I found a folder with several folders with ten, twelve page documents for individual features for the app. They would include nice mock ups, documentation including back end features, analytics hooks and so forth. And we are talking features that were generally changes to a screen or a UX widget.

"Why don't we do some of these?" Answer: They needed to go through some executive review meeting. Or, they weren't really specific enough because some lazy team member could say all the edge cases weren't defined. The key was convincing the team that as capable people that if the intent was clear, and important details specified, they were smart enough as a team to figure out the rest. And they were.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#103

Post by stormdennis » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

pastorhudson wrote: post #71

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

Don’t be afraid of the theological content. It’s a good prayer. God believes in you even if you don’t believe in him.

Sad that you get downvoted just because your views aren't "a la mode". I'm not religious any more but I see no need to be anti-religious

Re: Anxiety in product development

#104

Post by war1025 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #36

It highlighted how it can surface in atypical symptoms such as anger. This caught my attention, because out of all the men and women I know who experience anxiety, this was the most typical way the former expressed it. Who is the benchmark for how anxiety is expressed?

When all of this Coronavirus stuff was kicking up I found myself having a much shorter temper with my kids and in general more angry outbursts. My heartrate also kept popping up into the 150bpm+ range. I think it was like 177 one time I checked.

Didn't really connect it all together until after the fact, but it was very much related to the anxiety and uncertainty of a rapidly changing situation.

About a month later, I was feeling pretty relaxed and checked my heart rate again. 50bpm.

I think I read somewhere that people have a hard time focusing if their heart rate gets above 100 or 120 bpm (I don't remember which). Definitely proved true for me. I couldn't think straight for most of March.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#105

Post by bonoboTP » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #44

cambalache wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love it too, but let's be honest, the devil is in the details, I think most people agonize because they dont really know if their problem can or cannot be solved with more action from them. I for sure accept the things I really know I cannot change, and work in those I clearly know are under my control. The anxiety comes from those things I am lost in the sense I dont know if I should push more or I should give up.

My next tattoo is representing "the devil is in the details". I've had so many discussions with people over the years where someone will say "why doesn't X company/government just do Y". Well, because it's very rarely that easy. Just use black magic, that'll solve all our problems right?

On the other hand people "just do Z" every day. People make decisions and do stuff without infinitely agonizing over it.

As a mundane example: "Why don't I just stand up and go to pee? My bladder is exploding." "Well, because you're kind of stupid, you should indeed go to pee." "But if it was that easy, I would have already done it 5 minutes ago!"

Things are never settled and fully in balance. There are constantly surfacing opportunities to do something positive, ranging from straightforward to counter-intuitive.

It's not good to shut down all thinking with "nope, surely can't be done; if it could be, people would have done it already".

Thinking about why a company won't just do X or trying to put yourself in their shoes and come up with ideas is good mental exercise. Not everything is in a perfectly balanced out equilibrium. Otherwise there would be no profit made in this world.

Why bother doing research? If something is easy to discover, why haven't people already discovered it?

Of course I get the sentiment, you should think deeply before trying to revolutionize the strategy of a company. But ultimately the people who do decide on the strategy also don't precisely know what will be best. Nobody knows how one or another decision will actually pan out, in interaction with the real world with all the other things going on etc.

At some point you have to say, I've got enough details now, I'll make a choice. It will never feel completely satisfying. Either way it pans out, there will be a bunch of people who will say "they told you so", even just by pure chance.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#106

Post by asdfman123 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #99

asdfman123 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you're probably training them to be autonomous just like I'm training my dogs to use the dog door. They're still uncomfortable doing so because they're used to me letting them out, but every so often I let them do their own thing and they eventually find their way out. Soon it will become habit and they won't depend on me so much anymore.

Serious question I've had about dog doors: How does a dog door prevent rodents and other riffraff from coming in?

I'm not sure. I live in the city where everything is dead! Plus it's extremely hard to get into my backyard (gated complex and high cinderblock wall).

I don't think rodents and bugs are typically a problem though. People, maybe, but if someone wants to break into your house it's not hard to do so and the lack of a dog door isn't going to stop them.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#107

Post by dgb23 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #72

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I find that emotional compartmentalization is a critical skill. A couple years ago, I faced a very tough time in my life. My business was collapsing, my family's finances were in jeopardy, and there was a serious health issue going on. The emotional stress was incapacitating. I couldn't sleep, let alone focus enough to fix my problems. It was the downward spiral nightmare scenario. If I didn't have dependents (wife +…

Thank you for sharing this powerful prayer/mantra.

I too had to go through a time like this, for different reasons, but I lost and fell into depression. I didn't have dependents unfortunately and my self-esteem was completely shattered.

I recovered and became productive again since a while now. But I'm still haunted by anxiety sometimes.

I'm in a state of extreme productivity and self-confidence right now, but part of it is feeling chased by my failing in the past, as if I have to (or could) catch up.

At the same time I know that patience, focus and time are key to do the right thing(s). This is also being addressed in the linked article.

My strategy is to talk, be open about my feelings (which I had to learn the hard way) and to take time to meditate and appreciate silence, deep focus, my loved ones and the beauty of nature.

Mantras and prayers are like magic tricks: You condition yourself to focus on a positive, powerful thought and with time you can activate that state with little effort as you described.

Ill be contemplating some of the thoughts in your prayer. Some of the phrases are very powerful, tangible metaphors.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#108

Post by asdfman123 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

gramontblanc wrote: post #95

asdfman123 wrote: post #87

Yes, but what leads to anxiety? Toxic team dynamics. Google did a study and found the number one predictor of strong teams was a feeling of "psychological safety." > Within psychology, researchers sometimes colloquially refer to traits like ‘‘conversational turn-taking’’ and ‘‘average social sensitivity’’ as aspects of what’s known as psychological safety — a group culture that the Harvard Business School professor A…

I wonder if the same effect holds true if a team is made up of mostly confident/brash people, or if safety-to-project-yourself can be trained and elevated independent of any other aspect of social environment. Maybe improv classes or subsidizing employees to exhibit art or publicly perform music?

False dichotomy. You can be confident, brash, and rude to each other all day long, as long as everyone is in on it and everyone is socially intelligent enough to know each other's boundaries.

The problem is when people tell themselves "that's just how I am" and don't have a high enough EQ to notice that they're coming across as jerks.

Everyone is different and everyone requires a personal touch. It's important for people to understand how to get along with those who aren't exactly like them.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#109

Post by regulation_d » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #75

pastorhudson wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t be afraid of the theological content. It’s a good prayer. God believes in you even if you don’t believe in him.

OP didn’t say he was afraid, but that it was unnecessary which is objectively true - I don’t personally have a belief in gods, you have a belief in a particular god but we can both get value out of acceptance and serenity.

The differences of opinion here on the topic of the necessity of the theological content suggest that it is not, as you say, "objectively true".

Just because it is not necessary for you does not permit you to project your opinions on the rest of humanity.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#110

Post by bonoboTP » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #49

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My next tattoo is representing "the devil is in the details". I've had so many discussions with people over the years where someone will say "why doesn't X company/government just do Y". Well, because it's very rarely that easy. Just use black magic, that'll solve all our problems right?

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali...

The opposite of the "shit's easy" attitude, the "nothing can ever be done" is also bad. In the end, many countries and US states have answered all those questions and fleshed out the legislation to legalize marijuana.

Just look around you, and you see tons of stuff that was done, despite the difficulty.