Workman Keyboard Layout (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#181

Post by thenoblesunfish » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

noaccoun wrote: post #101

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

It's not about being faster, but to not suffer from RSI. QWERTY forces your hands to stay in abnormal position which can cause wrist pain. Ergonomic layouts (and column-staggered or ortholinear keyboards) are designed with that in mind.

I should have said in my post that I have nothing to say about what you should do if you have serious pain from typing - from the other posts here it sounds like lots of things might help, including an ergonomic layout. I had minor pain and I did find it went away with the switch, but in retrospect, that was probably because I also focused on efficient touch-typing as I learned Workman, so I improved my posture, I think. I feel as comfortable typing now with QWERTY as I did with Workman.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#182

Post by asmosoinio » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

coconut08 wrote: post #58

asmosoinio wrote: post #43

This article is from (2010)

are keyboard layouts like a time sensitive matter? qwerty is from the 1800's and dvorak is from the 30's. By comparison this article came out yesterday.

Not really - but I thought this was something new when reading the article.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#183

Post by new_realist » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

I use BEAKL v15.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#184

Post by camgunz » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #83

camgunz wrote: post #35

I had some pain in my right pinky and it made me realize tons of programming symbols and Enter are over there. I’ve been strongly considering remapping them somehow, though after wrapping my pinky and ring finger together for a couple weeks I was fine.

I have sticky modifiers on the top alpha row on middle fingers. So E+JK give me (), E+M, give me {}, E+UI give me [], E+H gives =. I+QWERTASDFGV give me numbers, I+U gives & and so on.. (actually I use a custom dvorak, but it's probably less confusing to explain this in terms of qwerty). Every symbol is bound this way. Shifts are also sticky so I don't need to tense up my hand so much for every capital letter. I'm st…

Yeah I've been considering something like that; I'm pretty concerned with training myself away from QWERTY, but if I had some additional custom binds that seems workable.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#185

Post by boogies » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #138

moonchild wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is tap/hold? I believe some people have done portable kinesis builds, which could be an option in tandem with a laptop.

> What is tap/hold? Tap a key, get a symbol. Hold the key, get something else (perhaps a modifier).

Not necessarily a symbol. I use "setxkbmap -option caps:super && xcape -e 'Super_L=Escape'" to make tapping Caps Lock simulate tapping Escape, and holding Caps Lock and pressing another key work as Super("Windows key") + that key in X11.

(eg. Caps alone = exit insert mode in vi, Caps + Space = Super + Space for toggling the tiling layout in my window manager dwm.)

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#186

Post by dbcurtis » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:18 PM UTC

gindely wrote: post #169

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

I switched to Dvorak before I started uni. I have been typing dvorak the majority of my typing. Still discovered the hard way that I needed an ergonomic keyboard. I use a kinesis advantage, but frankly a Microsoft one will do. It just needs to be enough. Also major factor: Switching away from a mouse. Every time I've done full time work at a computer (i.e. when I'm not studying), I got wrist pain. Switching to a touc…

Just a warning about trackballs: I love them and have used them almost exclusively for probably 25 years. A few years ago I started getting “trackball thumb”. So I advise switching up among various different trackball geometries. (I also use the Lenovo pointing-stick keyboards in the mix. )

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#187

Post by neves » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:18 PM UTC

Very nice work, I'd like to see the result not with books, but with programming languages.

The problem is but you loose a very valuable thing: the ability to use any keyboard. You won't be able to pair program. You'll be very slow when using your mother's computer. The ability to use any keyboard is more valuable than increasing your WPS.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#188

Post by snazz » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

neves wrote: post #187

Very nice work, I'd like to see the result not with books, but with programming languages. The problem is but you loose a very valuable thing: the ability to use any keyboard. You won't be able to pair program. You'll be very slow when using your mother's computer. The ability to use any keyboard is more valuable than increasing your WPS.

Some people are able to use two keyboard layouts fairly well so long as they practice both. Having and using a traditional keyboard layout on a laptop in addition to your heavily-customized desktop setup is a good way to do both.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#189

Post by sleepybrett » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

I suggest the advantage for everyone that talks to me about rsi and other typing related discomfort. It's just a great keyboard. Takes some getting used to (a few weird key positions but more the hardest thing for people to get used to is the way the keys are positioned in a true grid instead of staggered) but once you do you won't want to go back.

Rest assured though, you will still be able to use a 'normal' keyboard after your adjustment period.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#190

Post by iimblack » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

I'm going on paternity leave soon and hoping to use the opportunity to learn a new keyboard layout but I'm having a tough time picking which one to learn. I've already got an ergonomic keyboard (Iris) but I still hate the feeling of querty's layout. I run into so many words that just feel bad to type.

I think I've narrowed it down to two options (but I'm open to suggestions): Colemak mod-DH and Dvorak. They both take pretty different approaches that both seem to have merit. I like the ubiquity of Dvorak but I don't really predict it'll be difficult for me to get Colemak on any computer I use. Dvorak seems great but the placement of L and S seem very awkward to me. Colemak mod-DH seems to make more sense but I'm skeptical of the promise of finger rolls.