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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#161

Post by thequux »

mcv wrote: post #134
leotaku wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My country uses the QWERTZ layout which has dedicated keys for German umlauts. I mostly type in English however, so I've bound "([{" to "öäü". I now type umlauts using "AltGr+oau". It's definitely not a perfect solution, but it has worked well for me so far.

Dutch uses standard QWERTY, but does accents and tremas automatically if you type a letter that can have an accent/trema after you type a single or double quote, or a tilde. It's extremely annoying when programming. US International keyboard layout does this to in Windows. It seems the only type of keyboard that doesn't do it is the standard US keyboard, but that one doesn't have a Euro sign. I'd like to have a board…

I grew up in the US, and learned on standard US qwerty. After I moved to Europe, I found myself needing to type French, German, and Romanian words enough that I set up XCompose and I've been very happy with it. You just pick one key to be your compose key (AltGr is the classic choice, but menu, right windows, and caps lock are also good choices), and then you can hit Compose, accent, letter in sequence to type one of the "special" characters.

As a bonus, you can actually configure your own sequences for letters that you need often. For example, I have Compose ,s,h bound to ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯, Compose,g, bound to produce Greek characters, and Compose,t,q bound to my username.

XCompose is available on Linux using `setxkbmap -option compose:ralt`, on Windows using WinCompose, and there's probably a way to do it on OSX but I refuse to support that particular company on moral grounds so you're on your own.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#162

Post by nickbauman »

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

I think this is a great analogy. A friend is a pro flamenco guitarist; plays all over the world. He's so good that he doesn't really practice to "improve" anymore. He practices to protect his biomechanics by watching himself play in a mirror. He makes adjustments to his body placement so that he can keep playing for the rest of his life.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#163

Post by jon-wood »

lawn wrote: post #103
shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

I don't recommend it. I too tried this with an Ergodox, but the keys you want to have your symbols on are just so far away anyway. The center columns for example are quite far. Instead I think it's better to use layers (holding down a key to change what other keys do) and place symbols close to your home row. You can even have a numpad right under your fingertips. This is why ergonomic keyboard users are generally mo…

As an example of how this works, here's my current keyboard layout (it tends to change every few weeks as I find something else I want sitting on a layer): https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/xbLyp/la...

Holding the key labelled "OSL1" will switch the layout to the "Symbols" tab. The blue keys are dual-function, tapping them will enter the character on top, holding will turn it into the modifier key below. Finally the Gaming layer, toggled by the bottom right key on the keyboard, turns off all the special mappings and turns it into a standard QWERTY keyboard, because my muscle memory for game controls is too deeply entrenched to deal with in the middle of a fight :)

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#164

Post by melling »

wainstead wrote: post #148
nvarsj wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What helped we is switch from C++ to Ruby This is a great point. Some languages have terrible ergonomics - those which rely heavily on brackets which are poorly placed on a keyboard. Ergodox layouts tend to map brackets to the second layer on ER,DF,CV keys to mitigate this. But it's better for languages to not require braces at all.

Indeed, and if you have to work with those languages, a good templating system like emmet or yasnippet will save you a ton of typing. Let the machine do the typing for you.

I haven’t used it yet, but tools like TabNine will autocomplete more of your code:

https://www.tabnine.com/

Much of what we type is repetitive.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#165

Post by 1_player »

trashcan wrote: post #18
klodolph wrote: post #13

An oversight in the layout, in my mind—the human hand is better at typing in certain directions… the hands very naturally roll towards the center, but it is less natural to rotate away from the center. This is… somewhat covered in the article under SHU… > It is much more efficient to ride the momentum of a single arm or wrist stroke and type a combo rather than just one key. Try ASDF versus FDSA on a QWERTY layout. A…

> Try ASDF versus FDSA on a QWERTY layout. ASDF feels much more natural, doesn't it? It doesn't for me. Is it significantly more difficult/awkward? Maybe I'm used to it from playing scales on piano?

Same, I can type FDSA 3x as fast than I can type ASDF with my left hand.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#166

Post by frankmcsherry »

Okkef wrote: post #61
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

This is so true! There are so many quick wins to improve posture before the high-effort micro optimization of changing layouts: - split the keyboard for better shoulder posture (eg ultimate hacking keyboard but don't stop here) - Get a column staggered board with more thumb keys instead of row staggered for better finger movement (ergodox or iris keyboard) - Get rid of the num row and limit movement for fingers to on…

The Tightyl is gorgeous, btw, and made me start to think about what a 3d printer could do for me. For others, check it out at:

https://github.com/okke-formsma/dactyl-manuform-tight/

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#167

Post by alecmg »

Okkef wrote: post #61
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

This is so true! There are so many quick wins to improve posture before the high-effort micro optimization of changing layouts: - split the keyboard for better shoulder posture (eg ultimate hacking keyboard but don't stop here) - Get a column staggered board with more thumb keys instead of row staggered for better finger movement (ergodox or iris keyboard) - Get rid of the num row and limit movement for fingers to on…

> Get rid of the num row and limit movement for fingers to one key in any direction using layers to simulate the missing keys (corne or kyria)

Wow this is first time I hear this recommended in relation to keyboard ergonomics. As a user of compact 49 key keyboard without a num row, can at least confirm it is not bad for productivity. Numbers and symbols are on layers and thus spread over keyboard. As a programmer I use a lot of symbols and I like the compact layout more. Precisely because there is less weird finger movement away from working zone.

Another thing I can recommend on regular keyboards is angled home row finger position: sdfv and njkl instead of usual asdf jkl;. With corresponding change to zone of every finger. Elbows on arm rests, wrists are straight.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#168

Post by klodolph »

artsyca wrote: post #147
klodolph wrote: post #13

An oversight in the layout, in my mind—the human hand is better at typing in certain directions… the hands very naturally roll towards the center, but it is less natural to rotate away from the center. This is… somewhat covered in the article under SHU… > It is much more efficient to ride the momentum of a single arm or wrist stroke and type a combo rather than just one key. Try ASDF versus FDSA on a QWERTY layout. A…

How do you usually get along in a professional setting with Dvorak? I use it too been using it for like 20 years now and it's very smooth but I'd be interested to know your impressions.

The only hiccup I encountered in the past several years is that I had to figure out how to set up my YubiKey. That, and video games use key labels too often, but that’s not a professional concern.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#169

Post by gindely »

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

I switched to Dvorak before I started uni. I have been typing dvorak the majority of my typing.

Still discovered the hard way that I needed an ergonomic keyboard. I use a kinesis advantage, but frankly a Microsoft one will do. It just needs to be enough.

Also major factor: Switching away from a mouse. Every time I've done full time work at a computer (i.e. when I'm not studying), I got wrist pain.

Switching to a touchpad is tiring for the fingertip, since it's not designed to drag on a surface all day.

But switching to a trackball has been a fantastic choice (six or seven years ago by now - some kind of red Kensington ball). I think there's so much more choice in using a trackball than a mouse or a touchpad, since it can be operated with the fingertip or the hand, and it's trivial to operate it without bending the wrist badly.

I got the ergonomic keyboard before the trackball; but the trackball made an almost instantaneous difference, whereas the keyboard only makes a cumulative difference - nowadays I can use a straight keyboard temporarily (e.g. if I want to go somewhere and use a laptop, I can, even for weeks at a time) but I wouldn't want it fulltime.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#170

Post by toyg »

beaker52 wrote: post #156
toyg wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s so difficult about it? On Windows you just install an extra MSI for Colemak, add it to the standard desktop build and you’re off (you use win-spacebar to switch to the new keyboard quickly when sitting at the keyboard). On Mac you just switch to that layout (cannot remember the hotkey but there is one), no install required. Linux likely has 15 different ways to do it and you just have to pick the easiest one f…

I'm sorry, I've seen far too many smirks when explaining why my keyboard doesn't do the keys they want as I hurridly re-enable qwerty, or why I type like a 5 year old on their qwerty keyboard. And there's no way i'm getting someone to facilitate my keyboard fetish by installing/enabling any layouts. Plus, it's just _better_ when you can read the keys, and I can't go disassembling keyboards all the time to put the key…

> I've seen far too many smirks

This reminds me of the "it's easy to be a weirdo now" thread from yesterday. (i.e. no it isn't, we just moved the window a bit)

> no way i'm getting someone to facilitate my keyboard fetish

That's demeaning to yourself. Ergonomics is important and a keyboard is a work tool. It's like saying that a basketball player has a "shoe fetish" for insisting on using a shoe that is not the same model as his teammates'.

> Only Apple has the power to re-educate the world's typing habits

What do you mean, that Apple should sell Colemak keyboards? I agree there, but it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

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