German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#221

Post by rjeli » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

apta wrote: post #215

rjeli wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would pay more than the cost of an IDA license to use Linux at home :) I can't imagine not being able to cut videos on the cli with ffmpeg, reading the kernel source to understand my system, having ownership of my system in general... Haven't used Windows in a while, I've used a lot of macOS but I can't get over the recent thing about checking executable hashes against Apple servers. I get why they do it, and you c…

> I can't imagine not being able to cut videos on the cli with ffmpeg, You can still do that on Windows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux

and when I want to `ffmpeg -c:v h264_nvenc`?

...yeah, I realize the hypocrisy of preaching about open software and using nvidia... but it's definitely not seamless

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#222

Post by em-bee » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 12:53 AM UTC

madballster wrote: post #64

IIRC, the initial Munich Linux Project ("Limux") from 2004 I think was somewhat of a failure. They spent millions migrating dozens of different Windows applications, but found that certain offices (e.g. the land registry) kept using Windows applications for obscure hard-to-replace services and databases, leading to friction. Later they rolled back then entire migration just to re-announce a new Linux migration more r…

that's not really a fair characterization because it was only a failure in reaching the goal of 100% conversion.

i don't know if that even was the goal because realistically that is hard to achieve.

all in all it was quite a success for a transition at that scale.

the rollback was entirety politically motivated, and would have happened even if the transition was 100%.

likewise the new announcement is a political change.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#223

Post by belltaco » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

rjeli wrote: post #137

xur17 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter point, I've been working with Linux for the last 20 or so years, and I've gotten quite used it its quirks. It would take a lot to get me to switch at this point - I vastly prefer using it to both Windows and OSX (I used a OSX machine for 4 years at my last job, and have used Windows off and on). If Windows was free, and Linux cost $200, I'd still go with Linux. I guess my point is that a lot of the reaso…

I would pay more than the cost of an IDA license to use Linux at home :) I can't imagine not being able to cut videos on the cli with ffmpeg, reading the kernel source to understand my system, having ownership of my system in general... Haven't used Windows in a while, I've used a lot of macOS but I can't get over the recent thing about checking executable hashes against Apple servers. I get why they do it, and you c…

ffmpeg runs natively on Windows.

https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#224

Post by motohagiography » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 3:31 AM UTC

zelly wrote: post #93

motohagiography wrote: post #67

Software is culture, and when you move users from a middle-manager and bureaucracy-centric platform like Windows to a problem-solving power-tools platform like a Linux, it's going to change the culture of the organization. For the better I think, but the people this disadvantages will dig in hard.

You're right, Linux is a problem-solving power-tool. X11 breaks, you now have a problem to solve. Your hardware will only work with a proprietary driver that breaks on every kernel update--that's another problem to solve. What it means to use Linux is to become really good at solving problems.

Since I've been downvoted, I will clarify. MSFT discourages competence in users and is a workflow manufacturer for assembly lines. Its user interfaces are designed to inculcate learned helplessness in their users. That company will be remembered as the prime architect of an intellectual dark age. Its business model is parasitic, its products are managerialism made real, and it mainly facilitates business anti-patterns that bring suffering to millions of people whose jobs depend on navigating them.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#225

Post by em-bee » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:06 AM UTC

MayeulC wrote: post #198

longtom wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with duplicating effort?

I read your parent as making fun of the often-used argument against the plethora of Linux distributions. It's true that entering the Linux world is a bit like entering a shoe shop: why can't they just make two versions, home and professional? ;)

we also need summer and winter variants, and outdoor and indoor.

i'd like the summer outdoor casual all natural materials pair please.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#226

Post by em-bee » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:07 AM UTC

MayeulC wrote: post #198

longtom wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with duplicating effort?

I read your parent as making fun of the often-used argument against the plethora of Linux distributions. It's true that entering the Linux world is a bit like entering a shoe shop: why can't they just make two versions, home and professional? ;)

but they do.

the 'problem' is that there are a dozen shoe factories, sorry, linux distributors, each with their own idea of what is home and professional.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#227

Post by em-bee » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

johannes1234321 wrote: post #101

dewey wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both times were Munich though.

6 years ago there was an election and the conservative party and the mayor went to Windows (after Microsoft moved German headquarters from a suburb to the city) This year we had a new election now Green party leads the city council and they want to go back to Linux. Now Hamburg, where the Green party also won big, wants to change as well. Hamburg is even more significant since Hamburg not only is Germany's second lar…

to give an example of where that difference between hamburg and munich could come into play:

munic can not decide to put linux into its schools, because as a decision that would have to happen at the state level, that is bavaria.

but hamburg can. so if the hamburg transition is successful, that may translate into more Free Software in schools, which will be a model for the other german states.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#228

Post by terminalcommand » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 6:14 AM UTC

apta wrote: post #214

terminalcommand wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to switch back to Windows numerous times, each time I hated that I can't just spawn a terminal window and do things on CLI. It is not impossible, but it doesn't feel right for me. Maybe if I were more acquainted with .NET libraries and powershell, I could achieve similar proficiency. I feel like I am being suffocated when I'm using windows for development. My current solution is to keep a windows laptop for b…

You can run Linux on Windows, so you get the best of both worlds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux

Last time I tried SBCL didn’t work. Emacs also acted funny under powershell’s terminal emulator. I guess it’s better now with WSL2.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#229

Post by skc » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

It's much easier to do now that pretty much everything has moved to the web.

It's actually impressive that Microsoft has been able to pivot to such an extent that this news doesn't sound the death knell.

Re: German city wants to ditch Microsoft for Linux

#230

Post by Scottn1 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 8:45 AM UTC

zubspace wrote: post #200

terminalcommand wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it definitely my experience. Those of us who were stubborn to stick with Linux (or BSDs) learned it inside out. It is hard to switch habits after all those years. If all those sleepless nights trying to fix hardware problems were spent on learning the Winapi/NT kernel inside out, it could be hard to switch back. What I found most interesting was that I saw a video of the creators of plan9 who were running it…

Very interesting and kinda funny, that you ended up at Debian :) But I can understand that. One thing that tells me is, that it is good to have multiple operating systems, open ones and proprietary ones. They can all learn from each other. And I long for the day where Windows will offer me an equal commandline experience like Linux and where Linux will give me a decent desktop environment, where "it just works". In s…

Just wanted to replay that I can relate to both of you guys very much.

I have been a tinkerer all my life. I've installed and played with pretty much any OS you can think of (From BeOS to Solaris to Linux. Even DragonFlyBSD - which I wish would take off as I like the community). I will always continue to play and check Distrowatch, but I have started to value time more and more as the years add up {sigh}.

So with that, my love child though is, and always will be, Microsoft OS's. Started with DOS as a 10 year old and each new one I've enjoyed better than the last with Win10 being the best yet. Although I do deep down wish it wasn't full of telemetry and such, I don't get caught up in the FUD. I disable most of it and with the rest I just hope Microsoft uses it well/privately and that I am helping to make Windows better.