Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#71

Post by veemjeem » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #14

mullingitover wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Savings rates are through the roof right now, I would worry more about a deflation spiral.

You may be biased as a WFH/silicon valley type (continuing to produce income despite shelter at home). The median checking account balance was $3,400 in 2019, and that was before COVID19 struck. There's a lot of people who were already barely hanging on, and now covid and demonstrations have pulled the rug out from under them. We're only 2 months in. Things will get worse before they get better. 1. https://www.valuep…

Does that mean anything though? I don't keep much in my checking account either since there's no interest.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#72

Post by noad » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

burger_moon wrote: post #9

>He says a call center worker told him that he didn't qualify for any help because he was late on a car payment last year. When NPR contacted Ford, the company said that is not its policy. And after reviewing the case, the company is now letting Baird skip his next car payment, which he says is a big help. It appears Ford operates on the Google customer service spectrum of only helping those who can gain support of p…

Like when Wells Fargo investigated their mortgage department and found no problems, right? Or when Google investigated Andy Rubin and decided he wasn't that bad and protected him for three more years? Why on earth would you ever trust a corporation to police themselves? They always lie, they always fail.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#73

Post by cr__ » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

dmarlow wrote: post #68

ngngngng wrote: post #47

I'm so extremely grateful that I accepted section 8 tenants into my rental units. Most of these tenants have nearly all of their payment covered by the government and they just have to pay $100 or $200 on top of that to cover what the government won't. These tenants are often not accepted by landlords because they're thought to cause more issues. Mine are great. They keep the units spotless, mow the lawn for me on my…

> if they can't pay the hundred bucks the government won't I sure don't care I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property. Sometimes, when t…

Do you have any evidence that they did this because the government assisted them with their housing payments?

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#74

Post by JadeNB » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

dmarlow wrote: post #68

ngngngng wrote: post #47

I'm so extremely grateful that I accepted section 8 tenants into my rental units. Most of these tenants have nearly all of their payment covered by the government and they just have to pay $100 or $200 on top of that to cover what the government won't. These tenants are often not accepted by landlords because they're thought to cause more issues. Mine are great. They keep the units spotless, mow the lawn for me on my…

> if they can't pay the hundred bucks the government won't I sure don't care I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property. Sometimes, when t…

> I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property.

Surely the lesson here is that "this person was a criminally inconsiderate jerk", not "all Section 8 tenants are untrustworthy". (cr__ put it more punchily while I was posting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23409805 .)

> Sometimes, when things come easy to people, they don't appreciate it. Holding people accountable helps them lift themselves up too.

How does denying housing to someone who needs it help them lift themselves up?

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#75

Post by joe_the_user » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #59

bshipp wrote: post #17

This is just the start. Landlords would be smart to work with tenants to share some of the loss and renegotiate temporary adjustments to keep at least some revenue coming in because the heady days of high demand for rental units is likely behind us for a while. It'll be worse in downtown areas. I've heard from multiple firms that are looking at downsizing their expensive office space and continuing to allow employees…

Unfortunately, as part of the unfolding of the post 2008 recession, a lot of rentals shifted from individual or smaller landlords to larger corporate landlords whom take a much more impersonal approach to making it through the depression. To some degree, to the extent they can take out holdover loans and let rentals sit empty, they will do just that - irregardless of the social utility of compromise. https://www.thea…

This is the pernicious dynamic. For Large landlords, certainly but also generally, you have a situation where property appreciation becomes more important than rental income, so evicting people and getting nothing becomes a better outcome than lowering rent.

Edit: Also note this appreciation driven dynamic is something of a product of QE - printing money. As the treasury dumps money into markets, anything of apparently reliable value, "money-like", becomes more valuable - commodities and land being examples but the "best" companies also. This appreciation process becomes more important than the ordinary use of the object in the case of land (empty mansions in London being the prime example but we may wind-up with many more if the approach continues).

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#76

Post by ianai » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #49

cft wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California for example, due to state-wide rent control, it's very dangerous for a landlord to lower rents. I would rather offer 6 months free rent than lock into permanent nonadjustable lower rent situation.

At the same time maybe it's time for landlords who have been sitting in armchairs swimming in cash to start giving back to the people who haven't been able to afford to live here?

I want to agree but I’m not sure landlords are exactly to blame for high rent. There are many people and players involved-like the willingness of people to pay so much of their income to housing. Part of why you can’t find a better deal is everyone else willing to take the higher price.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#77

Post by chrisco255 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #36

walterbell wrote: post #7

If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy?

>If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy? Daily new infections have more than doubled here in North Carolina in the last two weeks since "reopening" [0]. We have had more new cases in the last two weeks (2200) than in the entire length of lockdown from March until then (2000). The de…

Remember the whole point of shutdowns was to "flatten the curve" to keep the hospitals from being overrun. We can't stop the disease and we can't commit economic suicide.

NC has only seen a slight uptick in hospitalizations: https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/dashboard and it's been flat for the past week.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#78

Post by favorited » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #38

cft wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California for example, due to state-wide rent control, it's very dangerous for a landlord to lower rents. I would rather offer 6 months free rent than lock into permanent nonadjustable lower rent situation.

If a lot of landlords start exploiting that loophole, I wouldn't be surprised if the law were revised to be based on the average rent over a year, or something similar.

They wouldn't have to change it, because that is factored in. The law states:

"In determining the lowest gross rental amount pursuant to this section, any rent discounts, incentives, concessions, or credits offered by the owner of such unit of residential real property and accepted by the tenant shall be excluded."

So if your rent is $3k/month, and the landlord gives you 3 months rent-free, your rent according to AB 1482 is still $3k.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#79

Post by Avicebron » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #20

Guest42 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring is very slow at the moment and the beater would likely require a lot of maintenance and have a high price tag although I agree that it’s smart to drive cars that are more economical.

Anecdotal, but I keep hearing about restaurants and other small businesses that can't convince their employees to come back to work. Something about the unemployment benefits + CARES Act bonus being more than they were earning while working...

Well maybe that should be a red flag for the economic situation of many many people that should cause some inspection on how we structure and think about work.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#80

Post by mikem170 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #36

walterbell wrote: post #7

If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy?

>If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy? Daily new infections have more than doubled here in North Carolina in the last two weeks since "reopening" [0]. We have had more new cases in the last two weeks (2200) than in the entire length of lockdown from March until then (2000). The de…

There are more tests than there were a month ago, and that affects how many positives are seen (by some amount).

Also the increase in deaths you link to is not statistically significant, given it is in the rage of 10-30 over the course of several months in a state with 10 million people.

Those numbers don't prove your point.