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Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

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Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#271

Post by zby »

zorked wrote: post #243
megaman821 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that all the forms of collective control you listed are perfectly legal. If the majority of workers prefer workplaces like that then those places will thrive. What you are implying though, is that the government forces all workplaces to conform to your desired control scheme. So fuller democracy equals government limiting choice, as long as it is your desired choice.

That's a bit like saying "Here we are in 1650 under an absolute monarchy. The people are the majority, they could topple our illegitimate hereditary government and make it a democracy, but they haven't done it yet because they certainly prefer things this way".

I don't know - there are cooperatives - it is not like you need to risk your life to work at one. Somehow they are not that popular. There are also partnerships - which are kind of close to cooperatives, when they employ only the partners and for example outsource office cleaning and stuff. In some industries they do pretty well - for example in law.

Why cooperatives do poorly? Maybe people usually are not very good at governance, that's understandable, you can have trade-offs - slightly worse pay for better working conditions, or better dignity. Does it work like this?

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#272

Post by stevens32 »

wpietri wrote: post #211
alexose wrote: post #142

I find it very disappointing that the most reliably lucrative career arc for a programmer nowadays is to get hired by a tech giant and stay there as long as possible. And the second most is probably to go to work for a company that could get gobbled up by a tech giant. I've made a career out of small startups, and I wouldn't trade it for a thing. On the other hand, if I'd gone to work for Amazon straight out of colle…

And what kills me about this is it almost seems like the big tech companies are just grabbing up engineers to no purpose. When I hear stories about what people are actually doing at larger companies, it often seems somewhere between miniscule and just plain empty. And it's not like a lot of the people telling these stories don't understand that. But they're happy enough wasting a third of their day at that salary.

I'd guess no one's really happy being bored all day. People get into a position where they feel like their life is settled, and unless they do something really horrible 'the good life' is all but guaranteed. Leaving something like that for uncertainty will calculate out to insanity for most people, because the value of 'the good life' is either very high or people under value their chances of success.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#273

Post by dclowd9901 »

This paper still dances around the real issue.

Why has worker power decreased? Yes, we can say that capital owners capitalised on the fact that workers were willing to give up more. But why were they? Unions can explain some of it, but why did Unions go away? Why is it, when two workers sit in two rooms with two managers, one of them is willing to take less than the other?

Consumer credit is why. Because of consumer credit, the person who is able to and willing to overextend their financial position "wins", which is an awful race to the bottom.

The essential purpose of work is to provide a lifestyle. If you cannot achieve the lifestyle you want with your job, you will demand more money. Why work at all if you're just scraping by, and not able to enjoy any of life?

But, wait, here's a credit card. Now you can have that lifestyle you want, and you don't really _need_ to demand more from your employer. Or maybe you do, but you know the next guy has one too, and you know that he'll take less because he can, and maybe he's less financially intelligent than you are. So you feel like you have less bargaining power at the table.

Would unions help with this? Maybe. But lifestyle is what drives us at our core. If greed is a core component of demand, then we need to make it so that we can't quench greed with false financial mechanisms.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#274

Post by Aunche »

jtr1 wrote: post #137
baby wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching Super Size Me 2 you realize that the same thing happened to the chicken industry. It’s frightening. It’s like we have a democracy (so far) and under that a lot of smaller authoritarian organizations that are hard to notice or dismantle. Some of the farmers were basically slaves, in huge debts to these companies way of running things. Unbelievable.

This is an argument a lot of non-authoritarian socialists make: democracy only governs the few hours when people are not sleeping or at work, so a deeper, fuller democracy would include running workplaces democratically as well. Whether by employee-elected boards, cooperatives, democratically run unions (a necessary distinction), or some other form of collective control, that the consent of the governed is a question…

Democracy is not an efficient way of running a business. Look at the multi-trillion dollar deficit as an example. Workers are incentivized to choose themselves over the health of the company or the customer.

Also, people overwhelmingly would rather exchange their stake in the company for the equivalent value in cash. It's only when the company's valuation skyrockets when they retroactively declare this to be unfair.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#275

Post by WalterBright »

dcolkitt wrote: post #215
jakozaur wrote: post #45

In almost all USA industries, there is increasing amount of consolidation. The top 4 companies' in almost any industry has a larger share of the total market: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/03/26/too-much-of-a-... Some consolidation is natural, but a huge part is caused by mergers and acquisitions (M&A) fulled by Private Equity. The M&A benefits the shareholders of participating companies at the expense of c…

Monopolization almost certainly is occurring. The left usually cites weak antitrust enforcement. The right usually cites regulatory barriers that make it expensive to compete without economies of scale. I actually think both sides are at least partially correct. However what almost everyone overlooks is the demographic transition. The US, along with every other developed economy, is significantly older today than it…

> Since older firms, tend to be larger, slower growing, and less competitive, it's not wonder we've seen an increase in monopolization.

This is self-contradictory.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#276

Post by WalterBright »

Frost1x wrote: post #173
aj7 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate governance is authoritarian. Period.

And its growing ever more unavoidable in daily life for anyone trying to live. Pretty much everyone is becoming subject to these authoritarian regimes (corporate structures) as they invade and carve away at our democracy through financial influence, regulatory capture, etc.

The more powerful the government is, the more it can be corrupted.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#277

Post by sudosysgen »

ls612 wrote: post #267
sudosysgen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not necessary to be unemployed for an extended amount of time in order to change jobs.

But on average a few percent of people will be unemployed at the moment the survey week is conducted. And that is what the unemployment rate is measuring.

Let's look at this mathematically. If the average person changes jobs every four to five years, and spends two-three weeks unemployed doing so, as they already have a plan for their next job, you would expect a job-related unemployement rate of around 1% due to job changes.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#278

Post by chrischen »

WalterBright wrote: post #275
dcolkitt wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopolization almost certainly is occurring. The left usually cites weak antitrust enforcement. The right usually cites regulatory barriers that make it expensive to compete without economies of scale. I actually think both sides are at least partially correct. However what almost everyone overlooks is the demographic transition. The US, along with every other developed economy, is significantly older today than it…

> Since older firms, tend to be larger, slower growing, and less competitive, it's not wonder we've seen an increase in monopolization. This is self-contradictory.

Not if you consider that older larger firms can use their position to artificially suppress competition.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#279

Post by WalterBright »

Aunche wrote: post #274
jtr1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an argument a lot of non-authoritarian socialists make: democracy only governs the few hours when people are not sleeping or at work, so a deeper, fuller democracy would include running workplaces democratically as well. Whether by employee-elected boards, cooperatives, democratically run unions (a necessary distinction), or some other form of collective control, that the consent of the governed is a question…

Democracy is not an efficient way of running a business. Look at the multi-trillion dollar deficit as an example. Workers are incentivized to choose themselves over the health of the company or the customer. Also, people overwhelmingly would rather exchange their stake in the company for the equivalent value in cash. It's only when the company's valuation skyrockets when they retroactively declare this to be unfair.

I often hear people complain about others making money in the stock market, so I suggest they invest in stocks, too. They respond saying it's too risky.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#280

Post by Apocryphon »

WalterBright wrote: post #279
Aunche wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is not an efficient way of running a business. Look at the multi-trillion dollar deficit as an example. Workers are incentivized to choose themselves over the health of the company or the customer. Also, people overwhelmingly would rather exchange their stake in the company for the equivalent value in cash. It's only when the company's valuation skyrockets when they retroactively declare this to be unfair.

I often hear people complain about others making money in the stock market, so I suggest they invest in stocks, too. They respond saying it's too risky.

I thought index funds have become the mainstream investment vehicle of the last ten years.
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