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Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

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Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#21

Post by undecisive »

seesawtron wrote: post #15
haleymbryant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to hear that there are structured channels for communication about racism and bias. Your message is in conflict with itself though; you're saying there is no racism but that it is consistently addressed internally - racism and more broadly unconscious bias is everywhere. One of the things this time is reminding me of is that fixing this problem is not some one else's job, it's all of our jobs. Believing ra…

I said we have well structured channels to address any kinds of issues. I never said they were being used to address racism internally but they could be used for it though, but like I said, we don't have this issue. You have misunderstood my comment to support your own worldview into mine.

I'm not sure that your conclusion here is correct - you may want reconsider before you accuse someone of unwholesome motivations ;)

The problem is that you have categorically stated that you do not have racism. Unless you're a one-person-band (and maybe even if you are a one-person-band), you cannot possibly prove the absence of something, especially something as pervasive and insidious as bias (any bias - including racial).

You can say we have no reported bias. You might even claim to have no biases worth reporting.

But absolutely zero bias? That would be an amazing thing to behold, even in an individual. Certainly something to strive for, never something to claim categorically.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#22

Post by haleymbryant »

JaakkoP wrote: post #19

We are trying an approach where for every new hire we must get a diverse set of qualified candidates for the last round of interviews. The idea is that we don't want our employees to feel they were hired because of their looks, but because they were the best candidate for the job. At the same time, we hope that as a company, this will make us work harder to ensure equal opportunity for underrepresented groups. What's…

Love this approach and the thoughts on goal setting to measure success.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#23

Post by testbot123 »

tjansen wrote: post #18

I would view racism as a marketing problem. Some (most? all?) people associate certain races with bad traits. That's the underlying issue, and to a certain degree it is also a subconscious thing that people can't easily change, even if they want to. Protests won't make any difference, nor will public statements. Riots only make things worse. The best, and maybe only thing you can do is to show black people in a more…

Minorities are not responsible for the racism perpetuated against them. It's not a "marketing problem" that minorities need to solve, it's a racism problem that the perpetrators need to solve.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#24

Post by psychometry »

tjansen wrote: post #18

I would view racism as a marketing problem. Some (most? all?) people associate certain races with bad traits. That's the underlying issue, and to a certain degree it is also a subconscious thing that people can't easily change, even if they want to. Protests won't make any difference, nor will public statements. Riots only make things worse. The best, and maybe only thing you can do is to show black people in a more…

You don't think black leaders are already doing that, and have been forever? You defeat racism by defeating racists: removing their power to advance their ignorant agendas.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#25

Post by psychometry »

seesawtron wrote: post #16
haleymbryant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to hear that there are structured channels for communication about racism and bias. Your message is in conflict with itself though; you're saying there is no racism but that it is consistently addressed internally - racism and more broadly unconscious bias is everywhere. One of the things this time is reminding me of is that fixing this problem is not some one else's job, it's all of our jobs. Believing ra…

Some people just want to make change happen in fields where there is no existing problem. Of course we face other issues that require change all the time but racism is not one of them in our company.

That racism somehow doesn't exist in your company is both unlikely and impossible to prove. It's almost certain that the situation is worse that you believe.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#26

Post by tjansen »

testbot123 wrote: post #23
tjansen wrote: post #18

I would view racism as a marketing problem. Some (most? all?) people associate certain races with bad traits. That's the underlying issue, and to a certain degree it is also a subconscious thing that people can't easily change, even if they want to. Protests won't make any difference, nor will public statements. Riots only make things worse. The best, and maybe only thing you can do is to show black people in a more…

Minorities are not responsible for the racism perpetuated against them. It's not a "marketing problem" that minorities need to solve, it's a racism problem that the perpetrators need to solve.

Don't disagree, but the poster asked what he/she could do. Also, it won't work without the help from minorities.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#27

Post by tjansen »

psychometry wrote: post #24
tjansen wrote: post #18

I would view racism as a marketing problem. Some (most? all?) people associate certain races with bad traits. That's the underlying issue, and to a certain degree it is also a subconscious thing that people can't easily change, even if they want to. Protests won't make any difference, nor will public statements. Riots only make things worse. The best, and maybe only thing you can do is to show black people in a more…

You don't think black leaders are already doing that, and have been forever? You defeat racism by defeating racists: removing their power to advance their ignorant agendas.

Your are assuming that there is someone in power or large numbers who has/have an agenda of racism. Who is? Have you ever seen any sane person who,for example, disagrees with the notion that Black Lives Matter? Some people may argue that there are other lives that matter as well, but no one seriously disagrees that Black Lives Matter.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#28

Post by testbot123 »

tjansen wrote: post #26
testbot123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minorities are not responsible for the racism perpetuated against them. It's not a "marketing problem" that minorities need to solve, it's a racism problem that the perpetrators need to solve.

Don't disagree, but the poster asked what he/she could do. Also, it won't work without the help from minorities.

Minorities have been trying to prove their worth to the US since the inception of the country (which was built on their backs). It hasn't changed anything.

And why isn't it that the non-minorities shouldn't be the ones who are groveling and seeking to be model citizens? Remember that if a white police officer hadn't killed a black man in the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. By your logic, shouldn't all white people now be tainted by his actions and forced to acquiesce to cultural standards set by non-whites?

If I disparaged your race, would you say the onus is on you to prove me wrong?

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#29

Post by tjansen »

testbot123 wrote: post #28
tjansen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't disagree, but the poster asked what he/she could do. Also, it won't work without the help from minorities.

Minorities have been trying to prove their worth to the US since the inception of the country (which was built on their backs). It hasn't changed anything. And why isn't it that the non-minorities shouldn't be the ones who are groveling and seeking to be model citizens? Remember that if a white police officer hadn't killed a black man in the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. By your logic, sh…

Perception is mostly shaped by frequency. It doesn't matter that much what most people of the minority do. It matters what the others see.

To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real life is getting scared every time they see someone who fits the profile.

It's up to the majority to give the minorities opportunities to present themselves in the best light, but you can't force someone to be not racist. Even those who don't want to be have an unconscious bias. You need frequent positive impressions of that minority to get a good overall impression and avoid that bias.

By the way, this is not limited to race, but also for example applies to people with tattoos. If all tattooed people you see are criminals, you are scared by tattooed people as well. It works with every property of people that's easily visible.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#30

Post by inclusivefuture »

Our CEO and ELT have taken a clear stance against racism. They've expressed sadness and anger at events that have unfairly targeted African Americans and other people of color and made it clear such injustices are not to be tolerated. Since May 27 we've had weekly company-wide sessions to discuss this. In our weekly team meetings and in smaller chat sessions we've shared thoughts, personal experiences and ideas on what we should do. On June 1 our CEO announced Cisco's purpose is to power an inclusive future for all. Public versions of our internal messaging are available yet but some is touched on in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIUDwpI66Q
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