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Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

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Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#101

Post by shadowgovt »

oefrha wrote: post #13
t0mas88 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Server logs with IP addresses are acceptable to most European privacy regulators if you only use them for a technical purpose such as debugging. And not keep them longer than needed for that. So practically: logs are fine, delete them after a while. If you store the same information in a permanent database and use it for analysis you're in trouble and should have asked permission. The fact that the user uses a privat…

> The fact that the user uses a private window or other means to indicates they don't want to be tracked probably makes this a more clear case. That’s a very confusing statement. My server logs don’t filter incoming log entries based on user agent, and certainly not on whether you’re using a “private window” or not. In addition, the goal of a private/incognito session is to be indistinguishable from regular sessions,…

> Wow the number of people on this thread claiming websites should be able to opt people out of logging based on whether they’re using a “private window” (which websites should have absolutely no idea about) makes me question if I’m even on Hacker News.

Especially since "Websites shouldn't be able to tell if you're in incognito mode" has been highlighted in the past as a privacy ask, yes.

People can at least agree "website shouldn't be able to tell if you're in incognito mode" and "website should not track you if you are in incognito mode" are two mutually exclusive features, right?

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#102

Post by metroholografix »

Getting some semblance of control over my browsing habits and enabling the implementation of multiple-proxy-based browsing strategies is one reason why I wrote chrome-private.sh [1].

I go through hundreds of disposable browsing profiles every day.

[1] https://github.com/atomontage/chrome-private

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#103

Post by La1n »

w7 wrote: post #63
t0mas88 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're not using the IP addresses in the logs to circumvent the fact that cookies are being deleted by your user's device right? Because it looks like that's what Google was doing, and that's actively circumventing the decision of the user not to be tracked which is illegal in many places.

My interpretation of this article is it's related to incognito mode. How is it circumventing a "decision of the user not to be tracked" when "private" modes usually explicitly state they can't/don't stop websites from logging information.

>explicitly state they can't/don't stop websites from logging information.

Because it's not about the logging, it's about the linking to a cookie/information they do not have access to in incognito?

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#104

Post by coronadisaster »

shadowgovt wrote: post #100
coronadisaster wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while they do warn you, it is about time that they implement a real incognito mode, maybe using Tor by default... The current incognito only protects your privacy from other people that are using the same computer which is not really that helpful since you could just create another user to achieve basically the same (if your disk is encrypted)

Why should they? Tor is already there.

They should because it would be the right thing to do... and Firefox is more popular then the Tor browser, so it would help spread Tor adoption... a lot of people don't understand the benefits of hiding your IP... so they aren't going to download the Tor browser

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#105

Post by tsimionescu »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #29
simonw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found the full lawsuit PDF https://www.insurancejournal.com/app/uploads/2020/06/brown-v... It looks like this is mainly about the fact that Google Analytics still works even if you are in Incognito mode.

Which there is a warning of every time you open an incognito window. It's not fine print either, it's one of about six bullet points. "Your activity might still be visible to ... Websites you visit." This one is going nowhere I suspect. Just because a lawsuit asks for big damages does not mean the plaintiffs are likely to prevail on their claims.

While I share your skepticism of the suit, I think that that line may be seen as misleading. Google Analytics is NOT a website I visit, in general. Still, despite the Incognito mode, GA may well track me across the internet.

Personally, I always took Incognito/In-Private browsing to be just a "delete cookies and history on exit" mode. But the way it is presented may suggest to many people that it is significantly more than that, even with the disclaimers in Chrome. I would not hold my breath for a successful suit based on that, though.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#106

Post by chubot »

metroholografix wrote: post #102

Getting some semblance of control over my browsing habits and enabling the implementation of multiple-proxy-based browsing strategies is one reason why I wrote chrome-private.sh [1]. I go through hundreds of disposable browsing profiles every day. [1] https://github.com/atomontage/chrome-private

That's pretty cool ... I'm left wondering what a visualization of the state accumulated by visiting different websites would look like, e.g. google, twitter, nytimes, etc.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#107

Post by dr_kiszonka »

utkarsh_apoorva wrote: post #84
dr_kiszonka wrote: post #43

(Disclaimer: I have a big personal gripe with Google, but I don't hate the company in general) Something has been on mind for a while. I see lawsuits against Google collecting / selling personal data and ideas to combat its monopoly in search. What I don't see is a discussion about regulating companies that have data on the majority of the population. I know for a fact that Google used search insights to inform strat…

Regulations, a lot of times, tend to have the opposite of the intended effect. In this case, you'd need to define what is meant by "having data". Is having an email or phone enough to qualify? Maybe yes. In that case, think of a rapidly growing startup, which breaches that mark (50% or whatever the law says) - and now has to comply with the law. But the startup is not capable of compliance, because the law was made f…

Thanks for your comment. I need to think about your other points, but what if we changed "data" to "behavioral data?"

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#108

Post by paulryanrogers »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #58
paulryanrogers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every website controls: the browser, analytics service across large part of the web, and sometimes the OS (Android/ChromeOS)

Your proposal is for Google to abuse its monopoly positions to provide a better privacy experience for its properties than for others?

Not my proposal. Regardless, a case is being made that Google is in a position to ensure its analytics services comply with the GDPR when a browser has been put into a mode clearly intended to opt out of tracking.

Other websites or services may be able to say they can't control how those browsers in such modes communicate that intent. Google cannot.

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#109

Post by tantalor »

metroholografix wrote: post #102

Getting some semblance of control over my browsing habits and enabling the implementation of multiple-proxy-based browsing strategies is one reason why I wrote chrome-private.sh [1]. I go through hundreds of disposable browsing profiles every day. [1] https://github.com/atomontage/chrome-private

So you're the one messing up my sessions analysis :p

Re: Google sued for secretly amassing vast trove of user data

#110

Post by dr_kiszonka »

guyzero wrote: post #67
dr_kiszonka wrote: post #43

(Disclaimer: I have a big personal gripe with Google, but I don't hate the company in general) Something has been on mind for a while. I see lawsuits against Google collecting / selling personal data and ideas to combat its monopoly in search. What I don't see is a discussion about regulating companies that have data on the majority of the population. I know for a fact that Google used search insights to inform strat…

Yes, all that data helped Google perfect its amazing chat and video calling app strategy.

I am also frustrated with Google's communication apps. Strategy is one thing, execution is another ;)
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