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Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

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Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are 95% false positive: if you're able to test all those people and catch the 5% that might still be a net profit. It comes down to cost. Societies are spending thousands of billions to mitigate the problem, even a slight reduction of that number is a win.

As far as I understand, you would need to send everybody who might have been in contact with someone who's positive into quarantine, right away. You can also test them, but you need to quarantine them immediately, as the virus is transmitted before symptoms show. If you just send everybody who was in contact with a positively tested person into testing (they give samples, send them in, get tested, get the results bac…

False positives do matter. However, we are currently at about 300 new cases per day in Germany. So how much do they matter, really?

If everyone of those has the app installed and has, on average, 100 registered contacts (so that’s about 98 false positives, if we assume that on average two of those lead to infections) that’s about 30,000 people being told to isolate every day.

If they are told to isolate for one week (should be sufficient, on balance) that’s around 200,000 people isolated at any one point in time.

If only 50% have the app installed that’s down to 100,000 people.

Sounds high but ok to me. Given how active the infection currently is in Germany I wouldn’t want false positives be higher than that – but somewhere in that high ballpark sounds fine to me.

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#42
post #7

I really question whether these apps will be effective. The limitation section https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-documentation/blob/ma... of their architecture document shows that people in close proximity for a few minutes may not even get picked up. Anyone who has dealt with trying to work out distance from Bluetooth signal strength will know that it is virtually impossible once you factor in, the orientation…

I have pointed out the weakness of the correlation between viral transmission vectors and BTLE radio signals these apps are relying on a few times before here on HN. I've pointed to the failure of deployment % reaching anywhere near the required density (and we are talking order of magnitude off here, not 'just missing a few %') where citizens had free choice. We've already seen many authorities requesting 'more cont…

It is because tech people think of tech solutions. Just as this whole pandemic was handled in the countries by virologists - who think in terms of viruses.

Reading about the app I remembered the book of Hans Rosling ("Factfulness") where he describes a situation in Africa during an Ebola outbreak. He wrote: There where people with apps everywhere. The apps were the hammers looking for nails. However, it just consumed resources and shadowed the fact that numbers reported were just messy and the epidemic was over 14 days ago. In the end they had to do data cleaning and they managed _Ebola_ without an app.

I think this app will make people become accustomed to getting traced for $reason.

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#43
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still far better, and quite simple at that!, than we have in the US.

The US is way too deep in the corona mess to do anything like that. What would help is widespread, easy access to tests (including a moratorium on ICE enforcement and no "paper records" requirement so that also illegalized persons get tested instead of being an unknown harbor!) and especially daily tests for at-risk personnel (medical, public transport, supermarket staff and inmates of prisons, jails and health/elder…

Honestly I’d still take it, why not both?

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#44
Most European countries develop their contract tracing apps as open source software.

The fragmented landscape is unfortunate. It's not just the code being developed that could benefit from a cooperative approach, the ethical, legal, medical and governance issues around these apps could benefit a lot from a shared European approach.

We have done this with the GDPR, we should collaborate on this as well.

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#45
post #13

I wonder how quickly contact tracing applications will be leveraged for other uses. If a significant number of protesters are using such an application then I imagine government will throw the “for your protection“ excuse to go harvest information from the phones of protesters to see who was meeting with him and who their social circles are. Of course, to keep us and our children safe.

It's already happened in the wake of the events related to the unfortunate death of George Floyd. Police in minneapolis have admitted the use of contact tracing technology to locate protesters.

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#46
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it's not meant to be 100% accurate. If it identifies even 50% of the people that may have come in contact with someone who's positive, even considering 50% false positives, I would consider it a rousing success.

Even if there are 95% false positive: if you're able to test all those people and catch the 5% that might still be a net profit. It comes down to cost. Societies are spending thousands of billions to mitigate the problem, even a slight reduction of that number is a win.

If 20 times as much people as necessary are forced into a useless 14 day quarantine that is not a net profit.

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#47
Covid contact tracing app Switzerland:

Android repository: https://github.com/DP-3T/dp3t-app-android-ch

iOS repository: https://github.com/DP-3T/dp3t-app-ios-ch

Covidcode Frontend: https://github.com/admin-ch/CovidCode-UI

App backend: https://github.com/DP-3T/dp3t-sdk-backend

App config backend: https://github.com/DP-3T/dp3t-config-backend-ch

Covidcode backend: https://github.com/admin-ch/CovidCode-Service

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are 95% false positive: if you're able to test all those people and catch the 5% that might still be a net profit. It comes down to cost. Societies are spending thousands of billions to mitigate the problem, even a slight reduction of that number is a win.

If 20 times as much people as necessary are forced into a useless 14 day quarantine that is not a net profit.

[deleted]

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#49
post #15

I'm at a loss as to why Ireland isn't open sourcing our contact tracing app or just using another open source App considering every other EU nation is. I suspect combination of soft corruption and perverse incentives.

did they announce they wont open source it? don't think ill be giving it a download then :/ shame

Re: Germany's Covid contact tracing app is Open Source

#50
post #49
post #15

I'm at a loss as to why Ireland isn't open sourcing our contact tracing app or just using another open source App considering every other EU nation is. I suspect combination of soft corruption and perverse incentives.

did they announce they wont open source it? don't think ill be giving it a download then :/ shame

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevelEire/comments/g77kcc/irish_gov...
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