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Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

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Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#111

Post by vinhboy »

brenden2 wrote: post #2

I think this plays into the current social unrest as well. People have been trying to separate the looters and protestors, but they seem to completely ignore the extreme inequality that exists throughout the US, especially in this period of high unemployment. People at the bottom have it bad, very bad. Being ignorant of that problem is just going to make it worse. Lashing out at fancy retailers in fancy neighbourhood…

It's easy to see this in graph form. 100K+ COVID deaths, 15%+ unemployment, wide spread homelessness, unaffordable housing crisis, riots and curfew in every major American city.

Google DJIA to see a graph of how this has affected the wealthy...

I am not blaming the players (well some), but the game is rigged.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#112

Post by deegles »

lanevorockz wrote: post #59

Trying to break the conditioning here but government should always tax in a way that it incentive WORK. The way things are Wealth is no longer being produced, so those who have it will be on top because income will never be enough to prop you up. Therefore we should want a Growth market so that more wealth is produced and risk averse people will still be rich but more people will become as rich as them. To resolve In…

Why should everyone have to work? We are 100% capable of creating a society where everyone's basic needs are met with the automation and technology we have today. The idea that a person is only worth something if they work needs to be deeply reexamined.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#113

Post by kebman »

To me it's pretty easy to understand. It's far easier for state organs to control large corporations, than many small and independent businesses. Meanwhile, it's far easier for coroporations with means to lobby for legislation that makes it difficult for smaller, i.e. competing, businesses to thrive. They can do this, because they can afford the armies of lawyers and lobbyists needed to uphold and exploit all those rules. Just add revolving doors. It's particularly conspicuous that this is going on to such a degree in the USA. In effect, it means the USA is increasingly ending up with a new kind of aristocracy not dissimilar from the royal rule they once rebelled against.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#114

Post by logicprog »

tryptophan wrote: post #24

[flagged]

Renters don't do "nothing." Part of the job of these rentiers - through the profit motive - is to allocate property to the highest (most efficient) economic use: someone who wants that land has to show that costs (which represent the value other people place on alternative uses) are less than the income, or the value people place on the proposed use. So they have to show that their uses is the use that satisfied the most values. Basic price theory.

Then, they get money from rent if they successfully allocate this land. If they unsuccessfully allocate it they have an incentive to undo that mistake (evict) and try again next time - and those who are really good at allocating well get more resources.

Now, whether the ones that "got there first" should get land is a good question, but it really doesn't apply in a market, since those who actually have the best record allocating land resources will end up with more land, no matter the original distribution. I would like to ask though, how else should we initially allocate propert?

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#115

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rapsey wrote: post #89
altvali wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you back that up with data? I'm curious to know by how much and how you reached that conclusion.

I would like to see someone back up the data with regards to automation. Why is the burden of truth on the other side? Fact of the matter is Chinese factories that produce the world's gadgets employ millions. This is reality and not some mythical fully automated factories. Globalism made the very poor in China/Mexico/etc. richer, created their middle class and it made the very rich in US/EU even richer at the cost of…

China is America's largest consumer of automation equipment. 25%. They, like America, are automating at a furious rate and have been for 2 decades.

The end-game is, of course, little need for labor at all. Like America China will have to face this and find some way to keep millions from starvation. And soon.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#116

Post by JamesBarney »

phkahler wrote: post #106
JamesBarney wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cause and the effect is reversed. There is more money for investment now than ever before (due to an aging population, and increased inequality) which leads to both a low/zero interest rate, and lots of money for PE. If it was an artificially low interest rate we'd see wage inflation, as opposed to just asset inflation.

Interest rates are artificial. IMHO they are currently way too low. I dont even think the absolute rate is what affects the economy, its rate of change in interest rates that causes change. Declining rates stimulate the economy while rising ones act as a brake. The absolute level of the rates determine where money flows and inversely affects the price of big things like housing and cars. Low rates lead to inequality…

I think you're right that low interest rates boost wealth inequality due to rising asset prices, but they also reduce income equality because of the tight labor market.

And by artificially low I meant below the natural interest rate or NAIRU.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#117

Post by RNCTX »

_2d30 wrote: post #101
rfulop wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with this argument. Capital gains should at least be taxed as much as earned income.

But then if you want to help people build wealth that don’t have it, you make it much harder. I really feel like people need to look into land taxes a la Henry George: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George Taxing things like capital gains differently or implementing a generic wealth tax can actually hurt those we want to help to build wealth as well as incentivize things like expatriation of wealth. Can’t expatr…

Taxes are not punishment. Taxes exist because a certain amount of wealth is required to maintain a state.

I understand that the financial/business world has been trying to convince people otherwise since the mid 1970s, but they are still as wrong today as they were then.

Tax “fairness” is therefore simple. He who earns the most should pay the most.

You cannot expatriate dollars. The currency is issued by the state and the state can seize it. Chinese factory? Great, tariff on iPhones at the dock. Baseline tax = difference in currency value between country of origin and country of destination on that day. HQ in Ireland? Super, you owe the US the difference between the tax you paid there and the equivalent rate here. Don’t like it? No security sales in US markets. Sell bonds and stock somewhere else.

These aren’t hard problems.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#119

Post by kebman »

deegles wrote: post #112
lanevorockz wrote: post #59

Trying to break the conditioning here but government should always tax in a way that it incentive WORK. The way things are Wealth is no longer being produced, so those who have it will be on top because income will never be enough to prop you up. Therefore we should want a Growth market so that more wealth is produced and risk averse people will still be rich but more people will become as rich as them. To resolve In…

Why should everyone have to work? We are 100% capable of creating a society where everyone's basic needs are met with the automation and technology we have today. The idea that a person is only worth something if they work needs to be deeply reexamined.

Because if you cannot offer anything of value, someone else will offer that value on your behalf, making you an extraneous cost which anyone in their right mind would want to remove. And then you are but a slave to whomever you are useful to, meaning whoever controls you, and whoever has the power, and who grants you the means to get those basic needs. If someone is giving you bread for free, you can be sure it's because they don't want you to rebell. But then that is also your only value to them, which is a very dangerous proposal, because it means you're expendable, and that the guy giving you that bread might not want to continue such a fruitless endavour. That is why an economy must rely on the basis of voluntarily offering something of value. Because the alternative is literal enslavement.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#120

Post by ggreer »

brenden2 wrote: post #29
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the businesses don’t exist anymore because it’s not possible to insure at a price where people will still buy product.

These are mostly big chains, I think they'll be okay.

The big chains won't run risky or unprofitable stores. It's the communities that will be hurt by this. Despite interest-free loans and over $100 million in federal funding, Baltimore still hasn't recovered from the 2015 Freddie Gray riots.[1] Moreover: government funding is a rather blunt tool, and directing it at a city tends to cause most of the money to flow to the nicer parts of town. That's what happened in Ferguson.[2]

Riots tend to widen the disparities, not reduce them.

1. https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-c...

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/is-rac...

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