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Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

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Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#31

Post by [deleted] »

pydry wrote: post #5
brenden2 wrote: post #2

I think this plays into the current social unrest as well. People have been trying to separate the looters and protestors, but they seem to completely ignore the extreme inequality that exists throughout the US, especially in this period of high unemployment. People at the bottom have it bad, very bad. Being ignorant of that problem is just going to make it worse. Lashing out at fancy retailers in fancy neighbourhood…

In all likelihood lashing out at fancy retailers will be effective. Additional police powers and crackdowns will be paired with throwing the rioters a few bones (e.g. greater checks on police powers and throwing the book at George Floyd's murderers). Of course, the elites will pretend that they meant to throw that bone all along and will vehemently deny it has anything to do with a smashed up Gucci store in Beverly H…

[deleted]

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#32

Post by pydry »

whatshisface wrote: post #15
pydry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all likelihood lashing out at fancy retailers will be effective. Additional police powers and crackdowns will be paired with throwing the rioters a few bones (e.g. greater checks on police powers and throwing the book at George Floyd's murderers). Of course, the elites will pretend that they meant to throw that bone all along and will vehemently deny it has anything to do with a smashed up Gucci store in Beverly H…

Wait, so if there were some elites in charge of everything, and if they felt personally threatened, you are suggesting that their response would be to decrease the power of their security forces? Wouldn't they want to make the police even more powerful?

Yes of course they'd want that, but compromise is often a necessity to prevent things from spiraling totally out of control.

The French and Russian revolutions are a testament to what happens when the ruler tries to effect the appearance of compromise without actually doing it (e.g. Constitution of 1906). It ended very badly for the rulers in both of those cases.

They fucked up a lot more than just that, but that was a key contributing factor to their deaths.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#33

Post by Ididntdothis »

Miner49er wrote: post #14
metalliqaz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few rich people. They basically want Trump to just shoot all the protesters. I don't see any message being received.

Well, history shows us where that kind of disdain for the poor will eventually lead. It isn't gonna be good for the rich.

The problem is that change can take decades or centuries and the end result may not be better or even worse.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#34

Post by whatshisface »

Miner49er wrote: post #30
whatshisface wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the math is simple: 600 + 700k + 40M = 40,700,600 people who stand to lose if supply chains stop working and the recovery from the downturn is not swift. If you look at the history of insurrections, the poor tend to eat it just as much if not more than the rich. Examples: French revolution, Russian revolution, Chinese revolution...

The rich aren't needed for supply chains to work, and taking their wealth and redistributing it would likely make the recovery quicker. That was basically the entire goal of the New Deal.

Is that really true? The rich mostly put their money in the growth instruments like debt and equities. Someone needs to invest in businesses. Diverting the money presently sitting in investments towards spending would break the current system.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#35

Post by toomuchtodo »

whatshisface wrote: post #34
Miner49er wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich aren't needed for supply chains to work, and taking their wealth and redistributing it would likely make the recovery quicker. That was basically the entire goal of the New Deal.

Is that really true? The rich mostly put their money in the growth instruments like debt and equities. Someone needs to invest in businesses. Diverting the money presently sitting in investments towards spending would break the current system.

The Federal Government can deficit spend to invest in any necessary infrastructure or supply chains (funded by central bank operations), if the wealthy fail to do so. There is too much capital chasing too few returns, which indicates capital has lost a lot of its value.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#36

Post by rixrax »

babycake wrote: post #21
brenden2 wrote: post #2

I think this plays into the current social unrest as well. People have been trying to separate the looters and protestors, but they seem to completely ignore the extreme inequality that exists throughout the US, especially in this period of high unemployment. People at the bottom have it bad, very bad. Being ignorant of that problem is just going to make it worse. Lashing out at fancy retailers in fancy neighbourhood…

Politicians, police, corporations, media... the institution is trying to pushing the idea that protestors == looters. And therefore the protests should be quelled. Several states even went so far as to declare, without any evidence, that the majority of the people in the protests were from out-of-state troublemakers... which makes no sense. Even more fitting, President Trump called the protestors thugs and terrorists…

It’s a protest! You want someones attention. What good would it do to shout slogans in some hick town in the middle of nowhere. Of course You want to go somewhere where someone actually notices. So people protesting out of state/town/county makes perfect sense to me.

That said, completely agree that narrative around ‘trouble makers coming out of town’ was overblown and likely put out to take attention away from real issues at hand.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#37

Post by rapsey »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #27

The big issue is supply and demand. With increasing automation and global supply chains, there is a huge amount of labor available relative to the need. In the past, a union strike at a plant would see a generous long-term contract and benefits for the workers. Now, it is likely for the plant to be moved or workers replaced with automation.

Automation is a drop in the ocean compared to the effects of trade agreements that resulted in jobs being exported.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#38

Post by whatshisface »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35
whatshisface wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true? The rich mostly put their money in the growth instruments like debt and equities. Someone needs to invest in businesses. Diverting the money presently sitting in investments towards spending would break the current system.

The Federal Government can deficit spend to invest in any necessary infrastructure or supply chains (funded by central bank operations), if the wealthy fail to do so. There is too much capital chasing too few returns, which indicates capital has lost a lot of its value.

Are you suggesting that the federal government start a federal hedge fund, or are you suggesting that they directly operate industries? Neither one sounds very efficient, especially given the government we're talking about here. (How satisfied are you with the current administration? How much more power should they have?)

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#39

Post by ergothus »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #33
Miner49er wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, history shows us where that kind of disdain for the poor will eventually lead. It isn't gonna be good for the rich.

The problem is that change can take decades or centuries and the end result may not be better or even worse.

I forget where I saw it, but I appreciate a comment that says: When faced with extreme inequality, you can redistribute wealth through taxation or you can redistribute poverty through revolution.

Re: Declining worker power vs. rising monopoly power: explaining recent macro trends

#40

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

whatshisface wrote: post #15
pydry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all likelihood lashing out at fancy retailers will be effective. Additional police powers and crackdowns will be paired with throwing the rioters a few bones (e.g. greater checks on police powers and throwing the book at George Floyd's murderers). Of course, the elites will pretend that they meant to throw that bone all along and will vehemently deny it has anything to do with a smashed up Gucci store in Beverly H…

Wait, so if there were some elites in charge of everything, and if they felt personally threatened, you are suggesting that their response would be to decrease the power of their security forces? Wouldn't they want to make the police even more powerful?

> Wouldn't they want to make the police even more powerful

Civilians outnumber police 500-1. The people who were lead to the guillotines also wanted more police power but you have to throw a bone to the civilians to make them think 'you care'.

Here's $2 extra to come to work and risk coronavirus and we totally won't cancel your insurance when you get sick.

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