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Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

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Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#181
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine in Little Rock connected the dots on how police were ignoring burglary reports en masse to rig the stats in favor of businesses and realtors with a vested interest in lower perception of crime than there really was. The radios were encrypted to stop him from doing so within the next calendar quarter. He was plotting dispatch calls versus FOIA reports of burglaries to find the variances. I’d expect th…

I do not live in the USA, and I do not want to politicize my question. I am clearly asking out of curiousity: Would that be something related with the way that voting areas (whatever they are called in the USA)/Gerrymandering is causing? Area-X on the map (that doesn't have any straight/simple lines in its perimeter!!!) has data hidden, while Area-Z seems to have "all the problems"? Apart from real-estate fraud, I am…

The problem is multi-faceted and money explains most of it. The fact that wealth is associated with racial prejudice is tangential.

1) In the USA there is very little concern for local elections compared to say, the presidency. Most people don't even know who their local elected officials are, and most don't show up to vote in elections that only concern local issues. The only people who participate in local politics are those who have a business interest in influencing local political offices.

2) Yes, a lot of this can be studied with geo data, from both sides of the coin! From the standpoint of the police, maintaining a presence in multiple areas of a city is a matter of time and distance. How long does it take a police car to go from the dispatch location to the scene of a reported crime? From the standpoint of a criminal who is robbing houses, there's a consideration of "how long is it going to take police to get here" if they see that police have no presence in an area outside of the times when a crime is reported. You can also see disproportionate enforcement of criminal laws based on property location. A lot of people don't want to see house prices negatively affected by crime statistics in wealthy areas. When a kid from an affluent part of a city gets caught with illegal drugs, for example, you won't see a large police presence in the neighborhood showing up to investigate. More police means more reports, and reports become statistics, which then in turn negatively affect property values. On the other hand if a poor kid from an apartment in a poor neighborhood gets caught with illegal drugs, the police will happily go there and harass adjacent residences, cars, neighbors, and for lack of a better word turn it into a fishing trip to try and find more petty crimes to charge more people with.

3) Local tax revenue in the USA is mostly from two sources: retail sales taxes collected at the point of sale in stores, and yearly taxes on real estate. A lot of retail sales tax was lost when people began shopping online more than shopping in stores in the past ten years. Most larger online stores now collect and pay local sales taxes (like Amazon) but they did not do so initially, it has only recently been required of them to do so. Prior to changes in local sales tax laws, the responsibility to pay sales tax ultimately fell on the customer rather than the store. Due to that, the reliance on property taxes was even more prevalent than it is now. (1)

4) There is no profit in jailing criminals. There is profit in releasing criminals after charging them fines instead of sending them to jail. Again, for the purpose of maximizing government revenue, there have been efforts to jail fewer non-violent criminals and instead charge them fines and let them go. This is especially the case when there are quite literally financial services built upon paying bail and fines in the USA. Lets say a burglar is arrested robbing a house. It might take 6 months to a year to give him a trial, so unless he has some sort of demonstrable violent criminal history a local judge will simply charge him a bail fee and let him go. Presumably he can't pay the fee, so there are local bail loan services in the USA that, for typically 10% of the amount of the bail, will assume the risk of the burglar not showing up for his trial for him. So the burglar won't have to pay the 5,000 dollars bail he was assessed, he will only have to pay the bail bond company 500 dollars. (2)

(1) Property taxes are not entirely objective. In most places in the USA, people pay property taxes based on appraised value, not on actual realized gains or losses. For instance, if you buy a house, in the first year after the sale you will be charged property tax based on the price you paid for the house, but in subsequent years the local government will compare your houses to sales of similar houses in your neighborhood. If prices rise, they will charge you more based on the assumption that your house has increased in value.

(2) For the most part local judges are elected, not appointed, so they can be bribed with campaign contributions from bail bond companies who don't want those judges to compel them to pay for accused criminals who don't show up for trials.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#182
post #179
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the desire to be able to listen in/oversight during riots and conflicts between demonstrators and police. It make less sense in cases where someone is a victim of a crime or a patient being transported as such individuals are protected from the public prying eye. When recording devices and storage is so cheap as it is now it should be assumed that any communication traveling in clear is captured and stor…

>>It make less sense in cases where someone is a victim of a crime or a patient being transported as such individuals are protected from the public prying eye Few things there, first "victim of a crime", most area's criminal reports are public records as they should be. Allowing the police to operate in secret is a very bad thing Further outside of location information is a rare that other personal info is transmitte…

Here in Sweden, the public record goes in effect only after the investigation has been closed. Before that it is kept secret. The record can also be partially hidden in some circumstances in order to protect the integrity of the victim.

And even when its public record, there is a large consensus that some of it should not be published to a larger audience. There was a now old incident where pirate bay had a torrent of a public record covering the investigation of death of several children. It was one of the few torrents that if I recall right, the pirate bay voluntarily took down. A lot of people commented that police should have used more discretion in what they put in the public record.

Body cams has the same issue. It is good that they exist. There is however cases when the record should be kept secret. The default should always be transparency, with exceptions when there is good reason to keep it away from the public. As a obvious example, the body cam recording from a police arriving to a rape scene with the undressed victim should not be public record.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the deer freezing a problem? Wouldn't that be desirable? Less likelihood of a missed shot, etc.

It's considered unsporting and is a poaching technique. Yes, some game animals will stare into a light not understanding the threat, but the real reason spotlights are effective is eyeshine; the light reflected from the eyes of game animals makes them easy to find at night. There are many effective techniques that are not permitted when hunting game.

Incidentally, the use of radios is unsporting in Kansas, and therefore forbidden (unless you’re hunting coyotes—they’re considered a pest, so you can pretty much do whatever you want).

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#184

I haven't done the work to sign up at Broadcastify, but if you're in Durham NC and want to listen hit http://home.tinfig.com:9999 with VLC (or mplayer or whatever you like). It's an HTTP+Ogg+Opus stream from my BCD536HP. It's scanning the local P25 trunked radio system (Durham police, fire, EMS, ops, etc.). P.S. As I write this I'm hearing chatter about responding to an airplane crash... no more details yet.

tinfig.com, huh? Hmm... this sounds familiar.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#185
post #4

How come LE in 2020 is not using encrypted communication systems such as Tetrapol? Yes I know Tetrapol is European, but you get the idea.

Why would they? Encrypted LE comms is a horrible idea in the first place. How is the public supposed to monitor what their paid servants are doing, and provide any measure of oversight / demand accountability, if they can't listen to the calls???

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#186
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem reasonable to be able to FOIA the encryption keys in US locations where it is encrypted.

Doubtful. https://www.foia.gov/faq.html > Exemption 7: Information compiled for law enforcement purposes that: (A) Could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings I'd fully expect other exemptions to apply if you FOIAed the White House's SSL private key or something.

I’m Canada, usually you have to give everything to the FOIA department, and then they redact it.

I think that would make the keyholders soil themselves if they had to send the keys over even for a second like that.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#187

Do police really still use unencrypted radios?

In many (probably "most") jurisdictions, yes. Certainly there are some that are encrypted, and that trend has accelerated at least a little bit over the last few years. But from what I've seen, plenty of LE agencies (in the US anyway) are still in the clear.

Now, as others have noted, a lot of them have now gone to digital trunked systems (P25, and suchlike) that are more difficult to receive/decode. But that's not "encryption", it's just an annoyance.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#188
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure any $30 Baofeng will let you broadcast on these frequencies.

Any trunked radio system hops between frequencies enough that this wouldn't work. Individual radios get "paged" on a control channel and told where to receive. Eg, "Radios tuned to the police talk group, go to frequency X now." The speaker, when transmitting, gets assigned a frequency on the fly. A baofeng could stomp on a transmission, but nobody would follow it otherwise.

True, but not everybody is on trunked systems with channel-hopping. Especially in rural areas, you'll find plenty of systems that are just straight up analog on some VHF or UHF frequency. Generally, if you know the repeater offset and PL tone, you could - in principle - transmit on their system. Now doing so is a pretty Bad Idea for many reasons, but it's definitely technically possible in those places.

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#189
post #2

Hi there! I'm the owner and operator of Broadcastify, which is the platform that powers all the apps that provide police scanners and public safety communications online. I'm an active HN reader and would be glad to answer any questions folks have. It's an interesting business to be in these days...

Your site helps me know what's happening when I'm in Chicago. Robert thanks you for your service and for checking those keys. o7

I’m Chicago, this one is much clearer and interesting scanner:

https://crimeisdown.com/audio

Re: Thousands are monitoring police scanners during the George Floyd protests

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your site helps me know what's happening when I'm in Chicago. Robert thanks you for your service and for checking those keys. o7

Same, hope that robert stays safe out there (and remembers to check his keys)

In Chicago, try this one. Much. Nicer because you can put different channels on each headphone and manage multiple feeds more easily:

https://crimeisdown.com/audio

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