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The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

dyson.co.uk

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Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#41

Post by ForHackernews »

adwww wrote: post #33
barbegal wrote: post #23

It seems they really got out of their depth with this project. There are a lot of photos and videos of aesthetic things that (arguably) Dyson is good at such as the steering wheel user interface, the shaping of the wheel rims and the colour palettes for the paint job. But there is very little evidence of hard engineering, only one grainy video of the prototype car actually running (the other videos appearing to be th…

They also struggle with the culture of software. From what I've heard from employees, software is looked down on by management and is not really something they 'get'. Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. A good chunk of what makes a Tesla unique is the radically different software and digital user experience. Dyson (the company) are not ready to embrace the fast moving cultu…

> Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products.

Good!

God help us the day something like a fan or a vacuum cleaner needs "app connectivity".

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#42

Post by cptskippy »

clouddrover wrote: post #35
barbegal wrote: post #23

It seems they really got out of their depth with this project. There are a lot of photos and videos of aesthetic things that (arguably) Dyson is good at such as the steering wheel user interface, the shaping of the wheel rims and the colour palettes for the paint job. But there is very little evidence of hard engineering, only one grainy video of the prototype car actually running (the other videos appearing to be th…

Dyson should have gone with another manufacturer's EV platform for their first few cars, like Volkswagen's MEB platform: https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-wants-other-automakers-to-us... https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-... It wouldn't have been a Dyson from the ground up but it would have gotten their EV effort started at the lowest cost and they could have worked on their own in-house desig…

If they had gone with MEB, what would they be bringing to the table? Dyson's bread & butter is electric motor design and you're suggesting they outsource that and instead build a shell around someone else's platform? Arguably that's their weakness.

Tesla started out with retrofitting their electric drive train into a Lotus Elise, that approach would have allowed Dyson to do what it does best.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#43

Post by clouddrover »

cptskippy wrote: post #42
clouddrover wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dyson should have gone with another manufacturer's EV platform for their first few cars, like Volkswagen's MEB platform: https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-wants-other-automakers-to-us... https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-... It wouldn't have been a Dyson from the ground up but it would have gotten their EV effort started at the lowest cost and they could have worked on their own in-house desig…

If they had gone with MEB, what would they be bringing to the table? Dyson's bread & butter is electric motor design and you're suggesting they outsource that and instead build a shell around someone else's platform? Arguably that's their weakness. Tesla started out with retrofitting their electric drive train into a Lotus Elise, that approach would have allowed Dyson to do what it does best.

> what would they be bringing to the table?

Brand and design.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#44

Post by gorgoiler »

Vehicles are weird. I feel like we try to jam all use cases into one, when I really need three different things:

1/ To go to work and back. Same route everyday. Not very long. Currently use a bicycle, but I’ve used mass transit for these very common in-out routes in the past.

2/ Small local journeys. I can’t collect 6kg of wheat from the local farm with a bike or a bus. Taxi is viable if I could get them to wait 20 minutes while I hang around the farm, or perhaps I could use two taxis to get out and back, which seems wasteful and the market for getting a cab from the country back to the city is challenging vs the city to countryside version.

3/ Long distance journeys. City to city is easy and pleasant with mass transit. Harder with a family and luggage, especially if the destination is not in a town or city. Personal vehicle works well here, and it’s getting more common to be doing long distance journeys from suburbia to non-city destinations, for me.

It felt like I could do without a personal vehicle for a long time. I bought a petrol car five years ago and finally live somewhere where I need it as of two years ago.

Now that we’re all potentially migrating away from big cities (a real trend I see, albeit anecdotally) I feel like my ideal fleet of personal vehicles would be:

a/ big lovely slow commute bicycle

b/ local BEV for cargo

c/ something else for long range

What would be fantastic would be to combine b and c. Something where I could carry a few kg of 18650s for a 10 mile errand range, and load it up with 1000kg of cells for a 400 mile round trip (or 500kg if my parents would foot the bill to recharge the long-range incarnation of my mythical modular BEV, something which feels socially unviable with anything other than trips to see close family.)

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#45

Post by Already__Taken »

yardie wrote: post #24
mack1001 wrote: post #16

The only way to be successful with EVs is to have substantial scale and that scale needs 10’s of billions of dollars, which means public markets or huge private rounds which also means dilution. Many things that are probably unpalatable to Mr.Dyson.

Sadly, I think in trying to make an EV fit into a market full of ICE cars has blinded the public, designers, and engineers that a sedan is not the only form factor an EV can take. Something like the Renault Twizy[0] is an excellent use of EV tech. And it's technically classified as a moped or scooter. For now we're constructing 2000kg wagons to move 200kg of cargo and that just doesn't seem efficient. [0] https://en.…

ALL the early green cars looked stupid like this or ultra futuristic and no-one wants them. Tesla came a long and made one that just made a good looking car.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#46

Post by adwww »

ForHackernews wrote: post #41
adwww wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also struggle with the culture of software. From what I've heard from employees, software is looked down on by management and is not really something they 'get'. Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. A good chunk of what makes a Tesla unique is the radically different software and digital user experience. Dyson (the company) are not ready to embrace the fast moving cultu…

> Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. Good! God help us the day something like a fan or a vacuum cleaner needs "app connectivity".

True. Although, I have a secondhand fan / air purifier of theirs, and in theory the smart features of that are ideal - setting timers, voice control, etc.

But it's crippled by poor UI, only supporting Alexa, and an arbitrary limit of how many schedules you can set, etc.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#47

Post by fastball »

ForHackernews wrote: post #41
adwww wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also struggle with the culture of software. From what I've heard from employees, software is looked down on by management and is not really something they 'get'. Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. A good chunk of what makes a Tesla unique is the radically different software and digital user experience. Dyson (the company) are not ready to embrace the fast moving cultu…

> Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. Good! God help us the day something like a fan or a vacuum cleaner needs "app connectivity".

A "connected" fan definitely has its uses, especially if it can sense if I'm in the room or not.

"Connected" vacuums are already here, but they're called Roomba, not Dyson.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#48

Post by sumedh »

ForHackernews wrote: post #41
adwww wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also struggle with the culture of software. From what I've heard from employees, software is looked down on by management and is not really something they 'get'. Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. A good chunk of what makes a Tesla unique is the radically different software and digital user experience. Dyson (the company) are not ready to embrace the fast moving cultu…

> Things like app connectivity are after thoughts and not core to their products. Good! God help us the day something like a fan or a vacuum cleaner needs "app connectivity".

We already have app connectivity for the robot vacuum cleaners.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#49

Post by cjrp »

gorgoiler wrote: post #44

Vehicles are weird. I feel like we try to jam all use cases into one, when I really need three different things: 1/ To go to work and back. Same route everyday. Not very long. Currently use a bicycle, but I’ve used mass transit for these very common in-out routes in the past. 2/ Small local journeys. I can’t collect 6kg of wheat from the local farm with a bike or a bus. Taxi is viable if I could get them to wait 20 m…

Could #2 be covered by a car club / rental-by-the-hour kind of thing? ZipCar in the UK is about £8-10/hour with no monthly, so if you're not making the journey frequently that could be suitable? Obviously requires an available car nearby though.

Re: The Dyson Battery Electric Vehicle

#50

Post by hodder »

matthewfelgate wrote: post #37

why didn't they copy the Tesla strategy and start with a high-end electric sports car?

Among other reasons: 1) High end electrics are a very small market that is now overly crowded: Model III Performance, Model S Performance, Tesla Roadster (may never be produced, but in consideration of most high end buyers), Porsche Taycan, Audi E-Tron, BMW iX3, and more announced almost weekly. Almost none of these will do well given the limited market size for electric cars in this price range.

2). Dyson is proven and could raise capital if they needed to without a marketable proof of concept. They could have IPO'd a sub and raised money. Unlike when Tesla started, electric cars are now proven to work - maybe not in a profitable business model yet, but they are proven to work. They don't need to show off a high end sports car to prove this.

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