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Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

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Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#161

Post by kingosticks »

linker3000 wrote: post #142
Reason077 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now in the UK I’m paying £30/month for unlimited 5G data. 30 day contract, 5G roaming in many European countries. I’ve seen download speeds as high as 400 Mbps. Streaming games on my Mac from Google Stadia in perfect lag-free 1080p!

Right now in the UK I’m paying £8/month for 7GB 4G data, 30 day contract, EU roaming, unlimited calls and texts (Plusnet, SIM only). Which works for me because I am mostly on wifi or (current situation notwithstanding) on a very short commute.

Wow, thanks for that. I just realised I was still paying £9.50 a month to Plusnet for much less. Took just 2 minutes to login and update the tariff (reduced the data too since I no longer have a commute). I wish they'd do this automatically but obviously it's not in their interests.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#162

Post by TecoAndJix »

LatteLazy wrote: post #156
bb123 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't the product itself - the issue is that the company that produces is controlled by an outwardly hostile foreign nation that has a history of carrying out state sponsored cyber attacks against critical infrastructure in the west.

Help me out here: link me to an actual Chinese state sponsored cyber attack. There are a few that might of possibly could have been something or maybe not according to someone. I don't doubt china are capable, but they don't seem to be doing it. And that's exactly the same as the US. Plus the US are actively spying including using their power to support US companies and undermine democracies. I wanna be clear here, n…

Check out Mandiant's summary on APT1 [0]. Two brief excerpts from that report:

-APT1 is believed to be the 2nd Bureau of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) General Staff Department’s (GSD) 3rd Department (总参三部二局), which is most commonly known by its Military Unit Cover Designator (MUCD) as Unit 61398 (61398部队).

-APT1 has systematically stolen hundreds of terabytes of data from at least 141 organizations, and has demonstrated the capability and intent to steal from dozens of organizations simultaneously.

[0] https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-www/services/pdf...

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#163

Post by kingosticks »

dijit wrote: post #133
Symbiote wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia and Ericsson are both European companies.

Yes, and the parent is advocating for North American equivalents. I'm asking for European equivalents to AMD/Intel and Microsoft/Apple, which underpins our entire economy. You could make a lesser case about Google/Facebook but realistically if they went away our governments would continue working. If Microsoft deactivated our operating systems _or_ productivity software, our economy would be put back at least a decad…

Does ARM count as an alternative? I guess not since it's still mostly American companies actually producing products with the designs.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#164

Post by Synaesthesia »

jotm wrote: post #155
tibbydudeza wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can't beat their pricing ... we don't have the luxury of spending $$$ on an ideological decision.

Are they really cheaper? Anyone have the prices? I think even if they're cheaper now, they'll raise their prices later. And then you'd just be lining up the CCPs pockets at the expense of EU companies (does not apply to SA, I'm just saying for EU citizens). I was really disappointed in their newest high end phones. On par with Samsung in quality and price, but instead of making them more open (for custom mods and ROM…

They're really well priced, in terms of phones IMO yeah. In terms of broadcast hardware I assume that's the case too.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#165

Post by slantyyz »

Scoundreller wrote: post #24
jbay808 wrote: post #5

For a long period of time, these companies would not publicly commit to going ahead without Huawei for 5G, and despite pressure from the US (and warnings from CSIS), the Canadian government still has not made an announcement about whether Huawei would be restricted as a supplier. Many Canadians were frustrated by this, feeling like they didn't want Huawei networks but that they weren't being heard. It occurs to me no…

Oh, and don't worry, Bell, Telus and Rogers still sell Huawei phones to consumers. Probably helps them hammer down other Android phone manufacturers on price.

I don't think it does a whole lot with respect to the other Android phones for pricing. I ended up getting a Huawei P20 Pro last year. It was the best value I could get for the price, by a long shot.

Koodo was offering it for $0 additional dollars on their "medium tab" plan ($15/mo for 24 mos). The other options were pretty bad.

I don't really have a lot of brand loyalty when it comes to phones, as I don't use a ton of apps, and the ones I use the most are the browser, email and some messaging apps. I also don't really use the camera as much as most other people. I just want something cheap and fast that can last 3 years or more.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#166

Post by dijit »

kingosticks wrote: post #163
dijit wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the parent is advocating for North American equivalents. I'm asking for European equivalents to AMD/Intel and Microsoft/Apple, which underpins our entire economy. You could make a lesser case about Google/Facebook but realistically if they went away our governments would continue working. If Microsoft deactivated our operating systems _or_ productivity software, our economy would be put back at least a decad…

Does ARM count as an alternative? I guess not since it's still mostly American companies actually producing products with the designs.

ARM was entirely bought by Japans Softbank during the currency slump that followed the brexit referendum result[0], since then softbank has sold majority shares to Chinese companies[1][2].

ARM Holdings is predominantly Chinese now.

[0]: https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/5/12798302/softbank-arm-acqu...

[1]: https://www.theregister.com/2018/06/06/softbank_offloads_51_...

[2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-39204744

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#167

Post by slantyyz »

frequentnapper wrote: post #78
bgee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: China national working for the American company behind Android; opinions are my own. > But if Huawei is a Chinese spy Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? Is Huawei worse in terms of security compared to other telecom suppliers? If (national) security is really Canada's top priority, it seems the most needed ban is on American consumer products/websites [0]? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_…

As a Canadian, we have shared values and programmes between our nations in addition to us being neighbours. China on the other hand is a known enemy of those values and seeks actively to undermine our values. That's enough reason for me to support not having Huawei or any other chinese organization controlling any part of our infrastructure.

Absolutely. When the PM had to explain to China that our judicial system operates independently from government (as it relates to the Huawei exec's extradition to the US), it was funny and sad at the same time.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#168

Post by gen220 »

tirpen wrote: post #130
gen220 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some municipalities have tried to get into the high-bandwidth-ISP-as-a-public-utility business, because they’re too small for $BIG_TELECO to invest in, but they want fiber networks to attract businesses and remote tech workers. It’s mostly been unsuccessful because running a local and profitable ISP is hard. In the few municipalities where they’ve been successful, the big telecom companies have been more successful i…

It's not a reasonable argument at all. It's like arguing that the USPS is "not fair" to companies like UPS or FedEx. Or that public buses are not fair to Uber. Or libraries to book stores.

Hey, I agree with you. I was just trying to give context on what’s happening, without passing judgement or inflections my opinion.

I guess I would rephrase it as “it’s not a totally unreasonable argument”, i.e. you can understand why it would be persuasive to small c conservatives and libertarians who would otherwise be pro-any-policy-that-attracts-business.

It depends on whether you see access to high bandwidth internet as a public utility or not. Arguably it is, because the economics of it don’t make usually make sense for private companies unless that private company is a monopoly.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#169

Post by slantyyz »

Scoundreller wrote: post #111
bgee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If govs knew, they wouldn't publish it to avoid straining already strained relationships. But would do behind-the-scenes work to keep Huawei out of critical infrastructure. I don't follow; the Western world has put sanctions on China in the past [0], I don't think they would avoid straining their relationships with China in a situation like this. > Canada is happy to share data with USA and vice-versa. I don't thin…

> I don't follow; the Western world has put sanctions on China in the past [0], I don't think they would avoid straining their relationships with China in a situation like this. Those weren't economic sanctions, but focussed ones. And against a much less economically-important China. If China cutoff a country in '89, whatever. In '20, uh oh. The US already strong-armed Canada into arresting Huawei's CFO/founder's dau…

>> Those weren't economic sanctions, but focussed ones. And against a much less economically-important China

The lifting of some of those sanctions probably helped China become as economically-important as they are now.

I remember buying computer hardware in the 80s and 90s. There was always a threatening information slip or page in the box that warned about penalties against export of the technology to countries like China. And now? Most of that export-controlled stuff is produced there.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#170

Post by blaser-waffle »

Scoundreller wrote: post #58
humanlion87 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Most of the low-density population areas aren't covered anyway. By landmass, it's single-digit percentages or low double-digit percentages of coverage (And often it's weak outside of urban/suburban area). One of the least dense provinces, Saskatchewan, has some of the best pricing in the country because the government has yet to selloff the provincial telecom to private investors. Manitoba too before they decided to…

+1 for SaskTel. I've done work for them on their monitoring systems, seemed like a decent org.

More imporatanly, as someone in AB I am jealous of their cheap phone plans...

> Australia or Iceland have rates that Canadians can only dream of, with similarly geo-population situations

I worked on the NBN in Australia -- they've got their fair share of ISP-related issues down under.

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