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Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

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Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#121

Post by atupis »

mullingitover wrote: post #53
arcticbull wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just goes to show that Canadian telecom policy is controlled by telecoms, not by the government. It's very cozy and regularly functions to discourage competition. It's easy to say that, but Canada has a smaller population than California, but spread over the surface area larger than that of the United States. How many carriers, and how much competition, can you possibly expect in that environment? Especially in an…

> It's easy to say that, but Canada has a smaller population than California, but spread over the surface area larger than that of the United States. That is an extremely misleading statement. Approximately 75% of Canada's population lives within 150km of the US border, and even that is not a uniform distribution , there are dense urban population clusters.

Also here Finland I am paying 22 euros for unlimited 150mbit/s 4g connection and population density is pretty similar to Ontario.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#122

Post by sumedh »

humanlion87 wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Australia is similar as well, most of the population is in few cities with huge empty outback. The rates here are around 25 USD for unlimited text and calls with around 30 gigs of data.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#123

Post by seotut2 »

giomasce wrote: post #67
arcticbull wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really though? I mean, it used to be. Rogers wants $75/mth (CAD - $55 USD) for 10GB data and unlimited talk and text. Let's compare to the US: - AT&T wants 65++ USD ($87 CAD) for a comparable plan. - Verizon wants 70++ USD ($94 CAD) for a comparable plan. - TMo wants 70 (all in) USD ($94 CAD) for a comparable plan. And each network in Canada is dramatically better than AT&T and TMo, and roughly comparable to Ve…

Wow, in Belgium you can get the same for around 15 EUR and in Italy you can get 50 GB for less than 10 EUR...

And in Romania you get 50GB for 2 EUR (basically the plan is unlimited data, but with speed limited to 256kbps after 50GiB.). The speeds are quite good too, I personally reached 100Mbps on 4G on my phone in some places.

The 5G plan includes 80GB traffic for the same package.

++++++++++

I'm actually using this 2EUR plan as my main internet service at the moment, as I temporarily moved to the country side. I could get a 1Gbps FTTH connection for around 10 EUR per month ( or cheaper for lower bandwidth), but so far I decided not to bother.

50GB did last me for 20 days, with a lot of video content, some repos downloaded, arch package updates etc. The 256kbps limit I'm experiencing now is more than ok for anything text-based but YouTube only works seamlessly/without buffering in 240p.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#124

Post by dijit »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #6

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

> but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible

I agree. Europe should not depend on (and funnel money to) The US with Microsoft licenses for government and CPUs.

All the tech we depend on comes from the US, almost nothing is home grown.

Would you agree that we should have our own or are you coming from a position of North American protectionism?

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#125

Post by Lammy »

mthoms wrote: post #112
Lammy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get it. But then you have to define 'fact', and as far as I can tell the only thing that makes something factual is when enough people share the same opinion about it.

>the only thing that makes something factual is when enough people share the same opinion about it. You've got it wrong. Religion is a perfect example. What makes something factual is overwhelming evidence and expert consensus. It's not a 100% foolproof system but it's as close as we humans are ever going to get. Ideas presented by people without good evidence are not entitled to serious consideration. Especially whe…

That definition of fact is incomplete since it still depends on being able to agree on the fact of who you consider an expert.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#126

Post by aritmo »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #6

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

I think the "security concerns" are just a smokescreen .

That is, free trade was good as long we were on top of it, but now that we get a big competitor, it is not so good.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#127

Post by tibbydudeza »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #99
chvid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually in which western countries will Huawei implement 5G networks? I know they are technically allowed some places but no operators dare to hire them.

South Africa, well I don’t know if it counts as western but we’re rolling out 5G and using Huawei, as we did for our previous gen towers.

Well you can't beat their pricing ... we don't have the luxury of spending $$$ on an ideological decision.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#128

Post by TorKlingberg »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #20
markus_zhang wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to note that purchasing equipment from Nokia and Ericsson doesn't mean that you are "building and maintaining one's own infrastructure". As a bonus the network is also actively listened by all state players who have the ability to do so, regardless of supplier.

Right, I was making an argument for domestic solutions, which wouldn't include Nokia or Ericsson - I could've been more clear.

Mobile network equipment is complicated enough that you can't expect every country to make their own from scratch. It's a bit like trying to make a domestic mobile OS or web browser.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#129

Post by hocuspocus »

chvid wrote: post #91
chvid wrote: post #88

In other news; here in Denmark the government has barred Huawei by decree. Also covering Greenland and Faroe Islands. The situation is a bit different here since as there are multiple competing network operators (at least in mainland DK). Germany's main network operators are also decling Huawei; not by direct government decree though. So Huawei seems to be loosing 5G contracts all over the western world.

Actually in which western countries will Huawei implement 5G networks? I know they are technically allowed some places but no operators dare to hire them.

The #2 carrier in Switzerland, Sunrise, is already covering over 80% of the populated areas.

In France both Bouygues and SFR want to go forward with their Huawei 5G rollout. I believe the government has banned Huawei equipment only in a few sensitive areas.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#130

Post by tirpen »

gen220 wrote: post #52
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American, but I'd love to see more of our infrastructure projects pseudo-nationalized, personally. Governments manage to build roads and deliver mail just fine, and I don't see why digital infrastructure couldn't have more government financing and involvement as well.

Some municipalities have tried to get into the high-bandwidth-ISP-as-a-public-utility business, because they’re too small for $BIG_TELECO to invest in, but they want fiber networks to attract businesses and remote tech workers. It’s mostly been unsuccessful because running a local and profitable ISP is hard. In the few municipalities where they’ve been successful, the big telecom companies have been more successful i…

It's not a reasonable argument at all.

It's like arguing that the USPS is "not fair" to companies like UPS or FedEx. Or that public buses are not fair to Uber. Or libraries to book stores.

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