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Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

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Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#111

Post by Scoundreller »

bgee wrote: post #89
Scoundreller wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? If govs knew, they wouldn't publish it to avoid straining already strained relationships. But would do behind-the-scenes work to keep Huawei out of critical infrastructure. Edit: the risk may be theoretical, but we know all equipment can be bugged. Not a terrible decision to be bugged by a close ally. Canada is happy to share data with USA and vice-versa. Perhaps gov shoul…

> If govs knew, they wouldn't publish it to avoid straining already strained relationships. But would do behind-the-scenes work to keep Huawei out of critical infrastructure. I don't follow; the Western world has put sanctions on China in the past [0], I don't think they would avoid straining their relationships with China in a situation like this. > Canada is happy to share data with USA and vice-versa. I don't thin…

> I don't follow; the Western world has put sanctions on China in the past [0], I don't think they would avoid straining their relationships with China in a situation like this.

Those weren't economic sanctions, but focussed ones. And against a much less economically-important China. If China cutoff a country in '89, whatever. In '20, uh oh.

The US already strong-armed Canada into arresting Huawei's CFO/founder's daughter. Things are a bit strained at the moment.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#112

Post by mthoms »

Lammy wrote: post #108
mthoms wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed when you said you shouldn't call people crazy. But this... >A person's sincere belief in something is what that makes that thing true. ...is dangerous B.S. As they saying goes — People are entitled to their own opinions, they aren't entitled to their own facts.

Yeah, I get it. But then you have to define 'fact', and as far as I can tell the only thing that makes something factual is when enough people share the same opinion about it.

>the only thing that makes something factual is when enough people share the same opinion about it.

You've got it wrong. Religion is a perfect example.

What makes something factual is overwhelming evidence and expert consensus. It's not a 100% foolproof system but it's as close as we humans are ever going to get.

Ideas presented by people without good evidence are not entitled to serious consideration. Especially when those ideas contradict all existing evidence.

We need to stop normalizing this very dangerous notion that people can have their own "facts".

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#113

Post by Scoundreller »

simlevesque wrote: post #90
refurb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

Depends where you live. I pay 22$ CAD for a nice plan with 2gb, unlimited texts and voicemail. I'm with Fizz.

It's good as a Canadian plan, but atrocious elsewhere in the world.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#114

Post by snowwindwaves »

lihan wrote: post #65

Anyone who lives in Canada should comment on this. Their mobile data cost is over the roof expensive! This is in comparison already expensive cost in Australia. They need to manage to give everyone affordable 5G monthly data plan first!

Rogers used Ericsson before and they were no cheaper than Telus that was heavy huawei. Geography and population density and lack of competition are what make Canadian wireless more expensive than other countries.

Either way I would rather pay more and not rely on China.

Also I'm holding a grudge against huawei due to Nortel being hacked.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#115

Post by piiswrong »

kortilla wrote: post #100
bgee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: China national working for the American company behind Android; opinions are my own. > But if Huawei is a Chinese spy Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? Is Huawei worse in terms of security compared to other telecom suppliers? If (national) security is really Canada's top priority, it seems the most needed ban is on American consumer products/websites [0]? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_…

Canada generally shares the same views on democracy as the US; and, more importantly, is part of the same intelligence alliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

> and, more importantly, is part of the same intelligence alliance

that's exactly why you shouldn't use American network equipment. The Canadian government cannot spy on Canadian citizens due to legal restriction. So instead it tells the CIA to spy on you and then share what they learnt through the intelligence alliance.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#116

Post by snowwindwaves »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #84
humanlion87 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Canadian and US urbanisation rates are essentially identical. This isn't a case of looking at a map and population count whatsoever. It's an incredibly moot point when you look at where 95% of people live in both countries.

Coverage coast to coast along highways is the same distance but 1/10 the Canadians?

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#117

Post by threeseed »

bgee wrote: post #60
Scoundreller wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Huawei is a Chinese spy, shouldn't the government put some restrictions on that too for public benefit? But they can't with the ban-but-not-a-ban on Huawei. It would be too obvious that there was a ban if providers scrubbed Huawei consumer products entirely, and those consumers pay the price. And while you have the option to not buy them, it's not so easy to avoid communication with anyone with a Huawei device…

Disclaimer: China national working for the American company behind Android; opinions are my own. > But if Huawei is a Chinese spy Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? Is Huawei worse in terms of security compared to other telecom suppliers? If (national) security is really Canada's top priority, it seems the most needed ban is on American consumer products/websites [0]? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_…

1) Canada is part of the Five Eyes intelligence sharing program so they likely already have access to PRISM data.

2) US is a democracy with an independent judiciary and media. China is not.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#118

Post by [deleted] »

arcticbull wrote: post #40
Tiktaalik wrote: post #27

Huge relief to the government, who can now "approve" Huawei, and can go to the Chinese government and say, "see look we play fair in Canada", and still be sure that this will mean nothing and that no Huawei equipment will be used. Wouldn't be surprised if the government asked the establishment telcos to do this favour for them. Huawei and the notion of them building Canadian 5G polls insanely badly in Canada and the…

The relationship between Canada and China isn't exactly cuddly warm right now, what with Meng Wanzhou detained in Vancouver at the request of the Americans, and China's execution of a few unrelated Canadians in retribution [1]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/china-sen...

[deleted]

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#119

Post by SuperPaintMan »

Scoundreller wrote: post #58
humanlion87 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Most of the low-density population areas aren't covered anyway. By landmass, it's single-digit percentages or low double-digit percentages of coverage (And often it's weak outside of urban/suburban area). One of the least dense provinces, Saskatchewan, has some of the best pricing in the country because the government has yet to selloff the provincial telecom to private investors. Manitoba too before they decided to…

There's a reason we fight hard for our crown corperations out here in Saskatchewan, if this was left to the market we would be screwed. The farther away from populated centers you get, the harder it is to get decent service however. I grew up out in Melville, SK where the fastest connections at the time were 15mbps DSL connections (this was around the time that Google Fiber was starting to roll out elsewhere). Once you get farther out, copper isn't even an option so cellular and satellite links are needed. The only nice thing about fiber is digging up ditches is relatively cheap

Some of us are excited to see how systems such as StarLink develop, maybe bringing decent rural access to the network is in the cards.

Next time you make a page that requires 10Mb of assets before loading, please remember there are people dealing with terrible connections. I know my first 100mbps connection was a godsend.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#120

Post by noizejoy »

simlevesque wrote: post #90
refurb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

Depends where you live. I pay 22$ CAD for a nice plan with 2gb, unlimited texts and voicemail. I'm with Fizz.

I’m seeing CAD 32 [0]

[0] https://fizz.ca/en/mobile

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