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Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

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Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#41

Post by arcticbull »

pselbert wrote: post #17

Possibly a bit of a stretch, but to my mind more business for Ericsson means more guaranteed support for Erlang. That's something to celebrate about in my book.

I never put it together that for the the telecom-originating language Erlang, the "Er" stood for Ericsson. The more you know.

'The name Erlang, attributed to Bjarne Däcker, has been presumed by those working on the telephony switches (for whom the language was designed) to be a reference to Danish mathematician and engineer Agner Krarup Erlang and a syllabic abbreviation of "Ericsson Language".' [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#42

Post by adventured »

markus_zhang wrote: post #11
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #6

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

Just to note that purchasing equipment from Nokia and Ericsson doesn't mean that you are "building and maintaining one's own infrastructure". As a bonus the network is also actively listened by all state players who have the ability to do so, regardless of supplier.

> equipment from Nokia and Ericsson doesn't mean that you are "building and maintaining one's own infrastructure".

More than that, it's buying from allies, both political and ideological. I regard most of Europe as a liberalism ally, I'm entirely ok with my nation's telecom gear coming from eg Germany, France, Britain, Sweden, Finland and so on.

They use software from Microsoft or Adobe, and hardware from nVidia, Cisco, Intel or AMD. I'm more than happy to use their telecom gear, including paying a higher price.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#43

Post by Scoundreller »

saltedonion wrote: post #28
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show that Canadian telecom policy is controlled by telecoms, not by the government. It's very cozy and regularly functions to discourage competition. Canadian telecom policy still revolves around "facilities-based competition", where it's believed that new entrants should build out a new network. It's designed to fail. Even the incumbents, Bell and Telus, share a 3G/4G mobile network to avoid redundant i…

-Canadian telecom policy still revolves around "facilities-based competition", where it's believed that new entrants should build out a new network. Didn’t CRTC force the incumbents to sell wholesale network access to new players like Freedom Mobile?

It was at punitive pricing, to the point where you feared going off network. For example, Wind (Freedom's name at the time) charged 5c/mb for data ($50/gb). And Wind absolutely would not let you connect to the incumbents network if you were in the "Home" zone.

I think the voice pricing out-of-network was okay, but the incumbents definitely cooked the books on their costs on data.

They once had a plan for $39 with 6gb data and unlimited calls/LD in-network and anywhere in USA. But it had small limits for out-of-network in Canada.

Meanwhile, they incumbents charge cheap-enough prices to American or French providers so they can allow their subscribers roam in Canada with many gb included in the base plan. A French subscriber roaming in Canada would have 5x the data as a local plan at half the cost.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#44

Post by jariel »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #27

Huge relief to the government, who can now "approve" Huawei, and can go to the Chinese government and say, "see look we play fair in Canada", and still be sure that this will mean nothing and that no Huawei equipment will be used. Wouldn't be surprised if the government asked the establishment telcos to do this favour for them. Huawei and the notion of them building Canadian 5G polls insanely badly in Canada and the…

This was absolutely a strategic consideration planned in concert with the government.

There are no surprises for anyone here.

Literally not making the public announcement was probably the decision arrived at by Trudeau et. al. I'm not sure if it was the right move, though it's almost assuredly a planned thing.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#45

Post by harpratap »

jbay808 wrote: post #29
Scoundreller wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and don't worry, Bell, Telus and Rogers still sell Huawei phones to consumers. Probably helps them hammer down other Android phone manufacturers on price.

I don't have an issue with Huawei phones being available. I have the option not to buy them. It's not the same as network equipment.

If the telecom industry in Canada was competitive enough, you would have had the choice. Like in South Korea LG Plus is using Huawei while others are using Nokia or Ericsson

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#46

Post by jbay808 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #33
jbay808 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all your points, but does this go to show that? I'm not aware of what was going on behind the scenes. It could easily have been that the Canadian government told the telecoms a long time ago that they wouldn't be allowed to use Huawei, but kept this secret for the sake of contract negotiations. Do you know this not to be the case?

> It could easily have been that the Canadian government told the telecoms a long time ago that they wouldn't be allowed to use Huawei, but kept this secret for the sake of contract negotiations. I figure the government ran its Huawei-ban proposal by the telcos and they balked and said: "don't regulate it, we'll just not choose them". It's a direct access to government influence that the public could only dream of. M…

Wouldn't it have been more in their favour to choose Huawei, at presumably much lower cost? It's not like consumers who didn't like that idea could switch to someone else. The only explanation I can think of is that the government called the shots here, while sparing the telecos from a tough negotiating position.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#47

Post by jbay808 »

harpratap wrote: post #45
jbay808 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an issue with Huawei phones being available. I have the option not to buy them. It's not the same as network equipment.

If the telecom industry in Canada was competitive enough, you would have had the choice. Like in South Korea LG Plus is using Huawei while others are using Nokia or Ericsson

You're not wrong about this, but it still doesn't bother me that they offer Huawei handsets.

I just wish they'd offer Sony's...

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#48

Post by Scoundreller »

jbay808 wrote: post #29
Scoundreller wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and don't worry, Bell, Telus and Rogers still sell Huawei phones to consumers. Probably helps them hammer down other Android phone manufacturers on price.

I don't have an issue with Huawei phones being available. I have the option not to buy them. It's not the same as network equipment.

But if Huawei is a Chinese spy, shouldn't the government put some restrictions on that too for public benefit?

But they can't with the ban-but-not-a-ban on Huawei. It would be too obvious that there was a ban if providers scrubbed Huawei consumer products entirely, and those consumers pay the price.

And while you have the option to not buy them, it's not so easy to avoid communication with anyone with a Huawei device.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#49

Post by humanlion87 »

refurb wrote: post #36
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show that Canadian telecom policy is controlled by telecoms, not by the government. It's very cozy and regularly functions to discourage competition. Canadian telecom policy still revolves around "facilities-based competition", where it's believed that new entrants should build out a new network. It's designed to fail. Even the incumbents, Bell and Telus, share a 3G/4G mobile network to avoid redundant i…

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#50

Post by kevin_nisbet »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #6

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

I think we already bungled that one with Nortel going bankrupt, and getting parted up and sold off. And I don't think the solution for that, should've been, lets bail them out because it's in the national interest. We're in this really weird state where these bailouts allow privatizing the profits and socializing the losses. Even if that didn't happen, would Nortel survive anyways with the major consolidations over the last 10 years.

It makes it really difficult, that within a country like Canada, can you make a competitive landscape of a local supply chain, and have it only cost a little bit more, across the millions of pages of standards that make up a mobile wireless network, when you only have 3 customers that make up the majority of the market, plus some regional operators. I think it ends up costing alot more, which is what drives the consolidation and integrated supply chains. And it's not easy to support from a policy perspective.

Edit: Another thought, although the hard part about bailouts is, in a worldwide economy, you're companies are also competing with other companies that may receive bailouts or other government support which makes this an extremely complicated topic.

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