Live data from Hacker News

Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

cbc.ca

11–20 of 200 posts

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#11

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

Just to note that purchasing equipment from Nokia and Ericsson doesn't mean that you are "building and maintaining one's own infrastructure".

As a bonus the network is also actively listened by all state players who have the ability to do so, regardless of supplier.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#12
post #2

has anyone had to hear their crazy relatives go on about the dangers of 5G? Is there some penultimate youtube video or resource to point people to to assuage their fears?

A friend has some great stories of some relatives purchasing these lined coats for when it is rolled out.

Lined coats? More info about this, please? Sounds funny.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#14
post #2

has anyone had to hear their crazy relatives go on about the dangers of 5G? Is there some penultimate youtube video or resource to point people to to assuage their fears?

You probably shouldn't call people "crazy" if you hope to ever bring them around to your viewpoint.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#15
post #2

has anyone had to hear their crazy relatives go on about the dangers of 5G? Is there some penultimate youtube video or resource to point people to to assuage their fears?

I thought it was going to affect weather satellites or something.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#16
post #2

has anyone had to hear their crazy relatives go on about the dangers of 5G? Is there some penultimate youtube video or resource to point people to to assuage their fears?

I spent many hours arguing with a smart friend about this. I was unable to find any argument to get her to stop believing 5G is boiling/damaging/altering people's blood with "high powered energy waves" or similar (the blood clot revelations have only amplified that conspiracy angle).

I find a commonality among most conspiracy theory people is vast ignorance of the topic in question and any underlying science. This isn't always true, however I've found it to be frequently true. They watch YouTube or Facebook videos on a conspiracy, someone states an incorrect thing that is held up as being scientifically correct; the conspiracy minded person has no idea it's wrong because of their ignorance of science, and their eagerness to consume conspiracies prevents them from being willing to do proper research. They buy in with no skepticism.

Often the conversation would end on a variation of: when the pandemic is gone, and 5G is still here, then what happens to your conspiracy? They had no reply, the future risk of being wrong didn't matter, only the mental juice of the conspiracy here and now. Or: what about locations where there is no 5G and people are still widely getting the virus? No answer. Or: why is this event so interesting as to warrant outlandish conspiracy theories, versus the pandemics of 1957 or 1968 or 1918, which were not caused by 5G? Or: why didn't 4G kill everyone, despite the absurd conspiracy theories about that as well? It usually does no good, they ignore the premise because that's in the past, they're all about the conspiracy now (it's the only place they can mentally hide, because the conspiracy going on now is usually still open-ended, yet to be crushed fully).

The conspiracy they're latched on to in the present is interesting because all big events are interesting to the conspiracy brain. Particularly big active events. Once an event is disproven, they usually instantly forget it ever existed or that they were ever wrong, and move on to the latest thing occupying the news or culture that is worthy of conspiracy theories (it typically has to be a major event or their brains won't latch onto it).

I'm convinced at this point in my life, after decades of arguing with conspiracy-minded types, that it's a mis-wiring or imbalance in the brain that tilts people aggressively toward being prone to falling for conspiracy theories. They also seem to need the rush of it (which again makes me wonder about an imbalance in their brains). The way they behave intellectually is incredibly similar; when you get inside their way of thinking via long discussions, you start to see weirdly repeating patterns of thinking, traps, failures of logic, and so on. I find that people prone to it, can't seem to help themselves, they swallow conspiracy theories widely about numerous topics and rarely are capable of intellectual skepticism. It almost strikes me as an illness in how they seem hostage to it, and sort of reminds me of drug addicts I've known. Like arguing with a helpless zombie that can't alter their behavior under any circumstances, no matter what evidence they're presented with.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#18
post #5

For a long period of time, these companies would not publicly commit to going ahead without Huawei for 5G, and despite pressure from the US (and warnings from CSIS), the Canadian government still has not made an announcement about whether Huawei would be restricted as a supplier. Many Canadians were frustrated by this, feeling like they didn't want Huawei networks but that they weren't being heard. It occurs to me no…

Just goes to show that Canadian telecom policy is controlled by telecoms, not by the government. It's very cozy and regularly functions to discourage competition.

Canadian telecom policy still revolves around "facilities-based competition", where it's believed that new entrants should build out a new network. It's designed to fail. Even the incumbents, Bell and Telus, share a 3G/4G mobile network to avoid redundant infrastructure. Ironically, the two contracted Huawei and Nokia to build out this network: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/bell-teams-up-wit...

Huawei was marketing 5G directly to Canadian consumers for a while, but was careful to never mention/imply that 5G could lower pricing. That would be a thermonuclear threat to telecoms with dire consequences.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#19

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

One of the reasons used by Canada's telcos to rationalize Canada's sky-high wireless rates is that it costs them more to build out the networks than it does for other countries. I would hate to give them one more excuse to lean on by having them source this equipment domestically.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#20

I'm as much a proponent of free trade as the next guy, but I do think there's a strong argument for trying to build and maintaining one's own infrastructure whenever possible, even if it's a bit more expensive. Not just for national security concerns, but because they're big domestic projects and it's nice to have to the talent and knowledge at home.

Just to note that purchasing equipment from Nokia and Ericsson doesn't mean that you are "building and maintaining one's own infrastructure". As a bonus the network is also actively listened by all state players who have the ability to do so, regardless of supplier.

Right, I was making an argument for domestic solutions, which wouldn't include Nokia or Ericsson - I could've been more clear.
Post reply on HN