Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#601

Post by klyrs » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

salawat wrote: post #592

klyrs wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely you see the very notable difference? Is it the open carry of long guns? Is that what peaceful protesters should use to de-escalate the situation? Makes perfect sense. Cops love guns! Just some cool doodz having a chill gun party, come have a beer and a doobie, officer. Show you mine if you'll show me yours?

Actually, it absolutely is the best deterrence. Numerical advantage of firearms means the first person to shoot downright loses. Both sides will do everything they can to not be the aggressor. When you have disparity in ability to apply force vs ability to weather the response, that's when the violence actually happens. Nobody comes looking for a fair fight. Therefore you never find them when the stakes areas high as…

Historically, that's been a pretty effective means to get gun control laws passed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

https://historylink.org/File/20649

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#602

Post by Polylactic_acid » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #360

bradly wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a small suburb of San Diego the protest stopped traffic. Police forced the protesters off and then riots started and two banks were burnt down. Two weeks ago a San Diego police deputy was released from jail after serving only six months after sexually assaulting (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure) 16 women that had called the police for help. He does not have to register as a sexual offender. Protesting…

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

You can see in the HK protests the sea of people instantly parts to form a path for ambulances. American protesters just need to learn these advanced coordination tactics.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#603

Post by staticassertion » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:20 AM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #589

staticassertion wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two different police vans drove up to a barricade and there were virtually no people behind them. Where do you think they were going? Why do you think they drove into the barrier to begin with? Why could they not back up?

The barricade was put by the protestors in front of them, and they were apparently responding to a call. Yes, they should have backed up. My point is that they were attacked first, nothing else. It was kind of a play stupid games scenario - if you do that to someone chances are they’re going to freak out and at best be unpredictable.

They weren't attacked first.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#604

Post by throwaway2048 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #584

baseballdork wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like to invite anyone to define exactly under what conditions people think they have the right to stop traffic at major intersections for hours on end, other than of course signalling to the city beforehand. When peaceful protests have failed to affect change and police brutality (especially for POC) is continuing unabated.

I'll respond to this comment here on behalf of all of the responses to my point: None of you have provided any reasonably objective definition of what could constitute an otherwise illegal, and sometimes violent protest. These responses sound a lot like right-wing NRA 2cnd Amendment people barricading in buildings with guns and police surrounding them kind of rhetoric. All three of the responses (at the time of my re…

I'm sure the protesters will check with you next time about whats reasonable before they dare to object.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#605

Post by mikepurvis » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #479

kayfox wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your of course assuming that ambulance services don't track the protests and route around them as much as possible.

There is absolutely no need for emergency services to track pop-up protests, the very notion is absurd. We don't have the right to block traffic to promote our political opinions. When protestors block traffic, if the city decides they have to go, and they won't - in those situations, it's the protesters who are 'instigating', not the police. NRA 2cnd amendment protestors, pro/anti-abortion protestors, anti-capitalis…

Your priorities are reversed. Black lives being taken by police aggression are not less important than free flowing traffic. Even more so when the former has been the status quo since before the civil war.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#606

Post by vkou » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #535

jascii wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The looters take advantage of the chaos. The chaos seems willingly and knowingly caused by the police. I would at this point consider the police atleast somewhat responsible for the conditions that lead to the looting.

> willingly and knowingly caused by the police Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...

Extraordinary enough? A birds eye view, of a protest that was peaceful for hours, until police grab for an umbrella, and start attacking the crowd.

Here's an ant's eye view of the same event, by the way. @26:30 - the gas masks arrive, @28:20 - the gas masks take their place in the line, @30:00 - the umbrella gets grabbed, and the crowd gets attacked.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022002103584874...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#607

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

DiffEq wrote: post #320

untog wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, clearly the cops handled this wrong, but what got Floyd there in the 1st place? What? Seriously, what? Are you suggesting that the police should be free to pick and choose who they kill based on whether they are a "model citizen/saint" or not? "Do not kill a person unnecessarily" should be a universal rule the police work to. It doesn't matter one bit who they are interacting with.

Do you have a reading comprehension disability? I am pretty sure I did not say they should have killed him.

Between this attack and the flamebait in your other comments, you're crossing into bannable territory. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#608

Post by mindslight » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #551

mindslight wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overcome the police to what end, though? All most of the protestors want to do is protest , ie partake in some of their 1st amendment rights. So the protestors "overrun" the police and then what? Continue to stand in the street chanting? This feels like straight projection, and focusing on the few people taking advantage of the situation by looting etc. The police could solve that in a heartbeat by deploying small un…

I don't know. I'm not saying it's productive or a good thing, I'm just saying that's what it feels like. People are only going to stand and watch their fellow citizens get shot point blank in the face with tear gas canisters, pepper spray and rubber bullets for so long. Law Enforcement are denying people their right to demonstrate, and I feel like people are going to fight hard to keep it. EDIT: I mean, watch this [1…

I usually try to understand all sides of an argument, even if I disagree. But I just don't see what the reasonable police position could be here, apart from the police forces that actually engaged with protestors (ie their employers) about their concerns. The hostile police would seem to insist on asserting baseless anti-American top-down control without reason or responsibility, similar to Trump, which explains the sympatico.

Constructively, maybe if the protestors do "overrun" the cops, then the protestors could setup a new justice system, arrest the criminal conspiracies, and try them under RICO. If there were enough protestors willing to work this justice system, it could even be a good time for cities to say farewell to the incumbent union and hire the new system to keep order instead.

But practically yes I agree things will get ugly if we keep going down this path. But since the police are over the line by aggressing against basic American values, the only peaceful resolution is for them to simply stand down and stop attacking protests. I don't see any other option that wouldn't be bargaining with totalitarianism.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#609

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:40 AM UTC

fooster wrote: post #599

leetcrew wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the boston tea party brought up several times over the last couple days, and it strikes me as an odd comparison. unlike the rioting/looting that sometimes accompanies protests, the boston tea party was a specifically targeted act of resistance. the colonists resented british taxes in general, and were particularly enraged by the EIC's exemption from the tea tax (which allowed them to undercut other tea merc…

Learn your history better. http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/33-tempest-in-a-teacu...

can you summarize? I'm not willing to listen to a 40 minute podcast to figure out what you're alluding to in your single sentence comment.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#610

Post by filoeleven » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

bradly wrote: post #317

jwilber wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same here in Seattle as it was while I was in Berkeley during Ferguson. People protest peacefully, and police shoot tear gas into the crowd and attack whomever they can get their hands on. I’ll admit, the outright brutality I saw in-person in Oakland was worse than what I’ve seen here in the recent days. In Oakland, the police would purposely corral protestors into groups and literally beat the shit out of t…

In a small suburb of San Diego the protest stopped traffic. Police forced the protesters off and then riots started and two banks were burnt down. Two weeks ago a San Diego police deputy was released from jail after serving only six months after sexually assaulting (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure) 16 women that had called the police for help. He does not have to register as a sexual offender. Protesting…

> (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure)

The justice dept definition as updated in 2012 would include this. I don’t know how that plays out in state law, but what I’ve read points to that being the definition for state charges too. Doesn’t help when it’s not enforced, which is clearly the case here since the officer didn’t have to register as a sex offender either.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition...