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Dust in the Light

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Re: Dust in the Light

#111

Post by sharkjacobs »

nogenerix wrote: post #50
in_cahoots wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lenders for white neighborhoods formed explicit covenants to keep blacks out. White people chose to live in those neighborhoods and voted for lawmakers who supported redlining and other segregationist measures. They didn’t speak up for their black neighbors with less opportunity. For decades they have been silent and complicit as they live in their white neighborhoods and build generational wealth that has been d…

Sounds racist to say that black communities need access to white communities in order to create positive outcomes. Why can't the black communities stand on their own?

Communities have more positive outcomes when they have access to resources which are disproportionately more available to white communities

Re: Dust in the Light

#112

Post by dmode »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #109
dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Would that imply taxation (to fund such) on recent immigrants from Asia and Europe and Africa, whose ancestors were not involved in the horrors of slavery?

I don't see why not ? I also don't think we may not need Nordic country level taxation. Since the US treasury can print unlimited money and still see extremely low yields, why even raise taxes ?

Re: Dust in the Light

#113

Post by dmode »

scarface74 wrote: post #108
metalliqaz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democrats don't say that. Unless you grant that Republicans say that "blacks are lazy and violent" because right-leaning Internet randos say it online. The presumptive Democrat candidate put out words of unity, compared to Trump's verbal shit splatter.

Do you consider Obama an "internet Rando?" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.us... Obama was caught in an uncharacteristic moment of loose language. Referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses, the presidential hopeful said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trad…

Can you point to the phrase "white trash" in the statement above ? Trump, the defacto leader of Republican party, has said things that are 1000x worse

Re: Dust in the Light

#114

Post by dmode »

gonehome wrote: post #106
brokencode wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are the beneficiary of hundreds of years of policies and systemic racism that has benefited you at the cost of your fellow man. Imagine your parents stole a fortune from your neighbor and passed it on to you when they died. Does that money belong to you, or your neighbor/their children? I think the answer is common sense. The fact that you weren’t the one who originally stole the money is irrelevant.

What about if you go back three or four generations? five or six? I'm conflicted on this issue, I really understand the need and can persuade myself either way but it's not obvious. Being black in America may be a special case that's worth trying to correct directly with something like reparations, but I'm not convinced you can right all historical wrongs by this logic generally. A lot of groups have faced terrible p…

UBI and free healthcare are universal solutions

Re: Dust in the Light

#115

Post by scarface74 »

dmode wrote: post #113
scarface74 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider Obama an "internet Rando?" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.us... Obama was caught in an uncharacteristic moment of loose language. Referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses, the presidential hopeful said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trad…

Can you point to the phrase "white trash" in the statement above ? Trump, the defacto leader of Republican party, has said things that are 1000x worse

I said nothing about him calling them “white trash”. I was quoting the parent. I said that Democrats claimed that rural America only cares about “guns and the Bible”. A slight misquote from memory. But it wasn’t an “internet Rando” that expressed that sentiment like you claimed.

Trump can afford to say “much worse” just like republicans in the past could afford to use the “Southern Strategy” and dog whistle to their constituents.

Re: Dust in the Light

#116

Post by twunde »

dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Tangent: For anyone who wants to learn more about the history of instutional racism in the US, in particular the Home Owners’ Loan Corporation, The Color of Law (https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-Forgotten-Government-Segreg...) goes into detail about the history of red lining and how it was GOVERNMENT-supported. For those bothered by the curfews imposed across the US, I'd also recommend Sundown Towns (https://www.amazon.com/Sundown-Towns-Hidden-Dimension-Americ...), which discusses how many metropolitan areas had unofficial but very much enforced curfews for minorities.

Re: Dust in the Light

#117

Post by [deleted] »

dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

[deleted]

Re: Dust in the Light

#118

Post by clairity »

zamfi wrote: post #83
clairity wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "But when was the last time we had this level of protest in support of a minority group?" so injustice doesn't matter when it's just minorities, only when some (presumably white) people "support" them? > "What they’re arguing is that it changes which injustices are visible." ... to him . the injustices are painfully apparent to the population affected. look, all things being equal, it's better that he's now startle…

Wait, I'm not sure why you are taking a combative tone, as I'm pretty sure we agree -- and if we don't, I'd like to see where. Perhaps I was unclear. First: injustice absolutely matters in all cases, not just when it's visible to white people. But, injustice towards minority groups has, for most of American history, been invisible to and/or ignored by majority groups (obviously not to the minority groups experiencing…

yes, sorry if what i said seemed combative, but i wanted to be very clear and direct about the mechanism of change being the protesters and not the (particularly white) onlookers who support the protesters. that's not to disdain the support (yes to support!) or the changing of sympathies with (social) media (yes to sympathies!), but the effects of those are relatively marginal to change.

my secondary point is that it shouldn't need to take a video to convince (white) people. just listen to the protesters, carefully and earnestly, as well as the investigative journalism around what they say. that should be enough, if folks care enough to not ignore the injustices.

Re: Dust in the Light

#119

Post by free_rms »

dmode wrote: post #113
scarface74 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider Obama an "internet Rando?" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.us... Obama was caught in an uncharacteristic moment of loose language. Referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses, the presidential hopeful said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trad…

Can you point to the phrase "white trash" in the statement above ? Trump, the defacto leader of Republican party, has said things that are 1000x worse

This entire subthread is based around the premise of "they're too stupid/racist to know what's good for them".

Whether or not the specific phrase 'white trash' is said or not said doesn't matter. It could be 'clinging to guns and religion', could be 'deplorables', etc.

Racism totally does exist among the demographic we're talking about but it's not the only motivator anyone ever has.

Re: Dust in the Light

#120

Post by jimmydddd »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #110
jjtheblunt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that imply taxation (to fund such) on recent immigrants from Asia and Europe and Africa, whose ancestors were not involved in the horrors of slavery?

It's not about personal responsibility, or ancestral responsibility. Immigrants in the United States chose to become part of that country, with all the benefits, privileges, and responsibilities that entails. edit: To make an analogy, if you move into a condo, and its roof needs to be replaced the next year, it's not your fault that the building's reserve fund can't cover the cost, but that doesn't exempt you from pa…

Agreed. But if I just moved in yesterday, I wouldn't be happy if other tenants cursed me out and blamed me personally for the fact that the reserve fund hadn't been funded for the last twenty years.
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