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Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

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Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#491

Post by marcusverus »

jascii wrote: post #380
kortilla wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

I have never in my life seen an ambulance be stopped by a protest, nor have ever heard of such an incident ever occuring.

Not a protest, but this exact thing occurred during the Fort Lee Lane closure scandal, when people intentionally created road closures in New Jersey. This was national news for awhile [0]

Also, a lack of media coverage for a thing doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor does rampant media coverage mean a thing is common. Remember the summer of the shark? [1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#492

Post by mcguire »

gedy wrote: post #142
jonlucc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible, but also, there's precedent from 2014 in Ferguson. Several members of credentialed media were arrested and assaulted to various degrees. Pretty much nothing happened by way of punishment other than a settlement from the DoJ saying they couldn't kettle people anymore, enforced by what is now Barr's department. Any officer paying attention would know you won't be punished unless you act particularly egre…

> you won't be punished unless you act particularly egregiously like the one officer in Louisville reassigned to desk duty (big whoop) Isn't this honestly largely due to the police union rules and contacts, which (unions) are a key part of leftist labor relations?

Honestly? No.

No police union contract includes a statement that the officers are immune from criminal investigation and prosecution, and most of the egregious events would clearly result in investigation and prosecution (if not necessarily conviction) if done by non-police. That these cases don't get that far shows the effects of a general cooperation between police and the judicial and political system---DAs don't prosecute and courts won't convict---all backed by a social system that encourages that behavior: you won't get elected on a police reform platform anywhere in the US.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#493

Post by quickthrowman »

rhino369 wrote: post #279
bosswipe wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But aren't you supposed to defend their right to say it even if you disagree?

A couple points. Sure, but that doesn't extend to rioting and looting. The government has been restricting our first amendment rights to assemble for covid for 3 months. It's illegal to hold church services right now. Are we in a public heath emergency or not?

The Supreme Court has ruled on religious freedom during a pandemic and found that the 1st Amendment rights of religious organizations were not violated as the restrictions on gathering in public applied equally to everyone.

You may disagree with the ruling, but it’s case law and reality in the US now.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#494

Post by [deleted] »

bosswipe wrote: post #91

I had been heartened by the right's recent upswing in fierce support for the first amendment, but unfortunately I've seen little of that support during the protests as freedom of assembly and freedom of the press have been attacked. For example Rand Paul has not tweeted in a week. Sadly, as always, these kind of principled arguments, on both sides, are a sham to advance whatever the partisan battle of the week is.

[deleted]

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#495

Post by bhuber »

99_00 wrote: post #415
aoeusnth1 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police do use teargas and mace for no reason. There are dozens (hundreds?) of videos of exactly that from the last week, including an aerial shot of Seattle PD instigating with mace at point blank range on protesters who were behind a barricade.

Were they lawfully ordered to clear the area before using force? If the lawful order was give, was it because criminals were using the peaceful protest as cover?

No, and no. Here are some sources:

* https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the... - Main reddit thread, with aerial footage of the incident, as well as lots of other sources in the comments

* https://www.facebook.com/omarisal/videos/10220021035848747/ - Livestream of 30+ minutes leading up to the incident. The interesting stuff starts at 26' in, but he gives a lot of good context on the protest leading up to then. The livestreamer was at the front line when they started pepper spraying, and in fact you can even see him in the aerial footage as he's next to a pink umbrella that makes a good landmark. It's very clear from ground eye view the violence was deliberately premeditated and coordinated by SPD and not in response to any immediate threat. No orders to disperse, or do anything else for that matter, are given prior to pepper spray, teargas, and flashbangs.

* https://mobile.twitter.com/izaacmellow/status/12676798206006... - Official SPD story claiming incident is a "riot" and was forced on them: " Crowd has thrown rocks, bottles and fireworks at officers and is attempting to breach barricades one block from the East Precinct."

I don't think you can watch these videos and come to the conclusion that at least in this instance, it's not the protesters rioting but rather the police. Then they're officially lying about it.

Edit: formatting

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#496

Post by jariel »

zouhair wrote: post #163
jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

It's actually worse than that. Even in the killing of Floyd the Police claimed he resisted arrest, which was a lie[0], the coroner said it wasn't asphyxia that killed him (despite all the videos) and a private autopsy found that's not true[1]. They did all this amidst a huge public outcry, what do you think happens to some poor schmuck when no camera is around. Like this[2] and this[3]......... EDIT: Here is one wher…

First, this evidence there was 'no resistance' is not evidence at all, in fact, the claim by CNN is 'the lie'. There are many minutes of the interaction we don't have insight into, in particular the moments leading up to the 'kneeling'. That doesn't mean the police are not lying, but it definitely means the 'proof' offered by CNN is not 'proof'.

Also, city coroner made one claim, the coroner hired by the family made a different one, the claim that somehow the coroner hired by the family is 'correct' is just flat out inappropriate. Personally, I'm slightly more inclined to believe the city coroner, and that there were probably some complications. When the victim initially came out of his vehicle, it seems he fell to the ground in a manner that didn't seem to be due to a struggle, which would indicate something was wrong, physically, already at that time, obviously exacerbated by the police brutality.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#497

Post by mcv »

99_00 wrote: post #176
xenospn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without having any sort of insight into police behavior, I'm assuming two likely options: 1. They are given rubber bullets and mace without any form of de-escalation training, so they just use the tools they have at their disposal. 2. Just like any kind of organism, the police force needs to preserve itself and make sure it is necessary. The military doesn't like peace, and the police cannot thrive with peaceful prot…

I can't speak to your experience, but I've been in multiple riots, and you are right, teargas make some peaceful protestors violent and angry. From what I've seen, teargas and mace are used after a small minority of protesters become violent and the crowd is lawfully ordered to disperse. I can't say if these are the right tactics, but I have not seen police use these things for no obvious reason. The one situation wh…

Normally, in healthy police forces, the police is in contact with protest organisers to cooperate on weeding out the violent troublemakers to ensure the protest remains peaceful. This has always been very effective in many countries, including the US, before US police abandoned this approach and started training for escalation instead.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#498

Post by mcv »

rpiguy wrote: post #371
bosswipe wrote: post #91

I had been heartened by the right's recent upswing in fierce support for the first amendment, but unfortunately I've seen little of that support during the protests as freedom of assembly and freedom of the press have been attacked. For example Rand Paul has not tweeted in a week. Sadly, as always, these kind of principled arguments, on both sides, are a sham to advance whatever the partisan battle of the week is.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

Not at all. When Kaepernick protested in the most quiet, peaceful and respectful way possible, conservatives were screaming bloody murder. They also did that when MLK was leading protests.

Conservatives support protests by white people, but never by black people.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#499

Post by ABeeSea »

jascii wrote: post #380
kortilla wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

I have never in my life seen an ambulance be stopped by a protest, nor have ever heard of such an incident ever occuring.

The armed right-wing lockdown protestors blocked an ambulance. And a right-wing governor threw a tantrum that blocked ambulances.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#500

Post by [deleted] »

jascii wrote: post #380
kortilla wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

I have never in my life seen an ambulance be stopped by a protest, nor have ever heard of such an incident ever occuring.

[deleted]
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