Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#421

Post by montagg » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #151

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

To me, it was pretty clear that the police in Santa Monica and Long Beach allowed the looting to occur while treating the protesters like criminals from the outset. This isn't to say that other local precincts weren't significantly better in their treatment of protesters, but there's clear evidence that many police departments are either corrupt or completely inept in addressing violent crime. This has been a long ti…

This was also the case at Fairfax and 3rd in Los Angeles. Violence erupted only when the police arrived, not before. They escalated the moment they arrived.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#422

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

vb6sp6 wrote: post #302

monoideism wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police, I'm assuming there would be more than a single video taken. I mean, we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics, they've been doing it since Seattle WTO 1999. I've seen it in person to protests I've been to (as a protester). It's very hard for me to believe that all of a sudden those people are no longer a…

"This doesn't happen" (shows a video of it happening) "This isn't widespread" So how many videos do you need to see? 2? 10? 15???

Would you find it acceptable to shoot some footage of a handful of looting/arsonist incidents and proclaiming “protesters are doing X”, just like we are complaining that “police” are doing X?

Or would you correct someone and say that isn’t happening, and when confronted with a video of someone somewhere doing a bad thing, inform them of the fact that a few cherry picked anecdotes do not represent the activity of the broader population?

You don’t have to answer.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#423

Post by jwilber » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #214

jwilber wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same here in Seattle as it was while I was in Berkeley during Ferguson. People protest peacefully, and police shoot tear gas into the crowd and attack whomever they can get their hands on. I’ll admit, the outright brutality I saw in-person in Oakland was worse than what I’ve seen here in the recent days. In Oakland, the police would purposely corral protestors into groups and literally beat the shit out of t…

"numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I don't believe you. The umbrella guy breaking the AutoZone window with a hammer has no connection to any police department. Someone made that up on social media and people shared it because that's what people do. The only video I know of showing officers breaking a window is out of Seattle. It shows officers responding to a burglary in progress at a Target st…

Multiple people have replied with evidence in this thread.

I don’t know your view on the matter, but somehow I doubt that seeing videos will do anything to change your view on the matter anyway. I say this because in a thread about police brutality, you cherry-pick an argument counter to what videos have already shown.

I do hope the continuing videos showcasing police brutality, during protests OF police brutality, do something to convince people that it is a very real problem.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#424

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #417

rumanator wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police Giving your comment the benefit of the doubt, that does not address the fact that a while platoon of police officers witnessed a fellow police officer vandalize public property without any reason or justification, and they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse. That's pretty much…

> they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse I have seen dozens if not over a hundred videos of the police acting inappropriately over the last few days. I have only seen a single video in which any of them were stopped or reprimanded by another cop and that one "good cop" was a woman of color. If this inappropriate behavior is done by such a small percentage of the po…

Have you seen dozens or hundreds of videos of civilians acting inappropriately?

If a “woman of color” was seen starting a fire, would you be comfortable saying things like “black women start fires”? I sure hope not. Even if you had dozens of examples, it would still be wrong to make such a statement.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#425

Post by thatguy0900 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #417

rumanator wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police Giving your comment the benefit of the doubt, that does not address the fact that a while platoon of police officers witnessed a fellow police officer vandalize public property without any reason or justification, and they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse. That's pretty much…

> they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse I have seen dozens if not over a hundred videos of the police acting inappropriately over the last few days. I have only seen a single video in which any of them were stopped or reprimanded by another cop and that one "good cop" was a woman of color. If this inappropriate behavior is done by such a small percentage of the po…

The video of George that started all this has 4 cops in it. The 3 cops that allowed him to kneel on georg's neck for 7 minutes are not being charged with anything at all. The one female cop even remarks that George should be moved to be on his side, then when she's ignored, doesn't bring it up again. Why should they police each other when nothing happens when they dont

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#426

Post by nemothekid » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

rpiguy wrote: post #377

nemothekid wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? 1. If that were true women would still be unable to vote. Would you tell women in 1905 that "it's a democracy, you don't need to protest, just vote." 2. Even now, we have seen the power that be make it more and more difficult to vote. The current administration is throwing a complete temper tantrum at even the thought of letting people use absentee ballots during a national pandemic, citing the voter…

Women didn’t shoot cops in the back of the head, burn down city hall, steal and loot stores. These aren’t protests they are riots.

>Women didn’t shoot cops in the back of the head, burn down city hall, steal and loot stores

In what timeline are you talking about? Women's Suffrage definitely had protests turn violent. Here[1] is source about documenting this violence, and I went through the trouble of finding a source published 2 years ago in order to counter any narrative that it's "convenient" for today's issues. History has a way of whitewashing and romanticizing what were difficult fights for rights.

Large protests turn violent, and I'm not surprised that, with record unemployment as well, that looting is being amplified as well.

Besides, in any case, it's long established that peaceful protests don't even work. A man can't even kneel during a sports game without his protest being diminished.

[1] https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-viol...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#427

Post by chr1 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #280

brobdingnagians wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The onus is on both. One may be able to do it better, and more conveniently, but everyone's responsible for doing their bit in ceasing and stopping violence.

You understand why the protests started though, right? It's not like the protesters can say "ok, if we stop protesting now, will you please consider following the law?" How to you expect protesters to deescalate this with absolutely nothing changing and high level LE people still not accepting any blame and pushing for military help?

First of all they should say that they are not related to any of the looters, that anyone even throwing trash on the streets is against protesters. Use every opportunity to show how peaceful the protesters are. Not gather at nights as at nights there is a higher chance for confusing situation to arise that give opening to police to apply force. Instead of negative chants like fuck the police use positive chants like join us, or police is ours.

Police knows how to deal with force, the goal of the protest should be to not give it any opportunity to apply the force, so that even the people who are against protesters can't find a way to justify police actions.

It may be too late for applying this tactic now, but if it was applied earlier it would make the protest much more successful. At least that's what happened in Armenia few years ago, when after many years of unsuccessful violent protests, non-violent protest brought a real change.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#428

Post by 99_00 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

augustt wrote: post #256

99_00 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree that police have the right to declare a gathering unlawful and can clear the area?

Clear the area how? I think people have forgotten this doesn't need to mean your first step is pulling out the batons. If you tell a journalist they are under arrest, they will always comply. They won't fight back. So yes, still cops' fault.

>I think people have forgotten this doesn't need to mean your first step is pulling out the batons.

When and where did this happen? The first step is verbally telling people to clear the area.

>If you tell a journalist they are under arrest, they will always comply. They won't fight back. So yes, still cops' fault.

Given the fact that the police are always outnumbered in these situations, and vehicles, jails and officers have limited capacity, arresting everyone who doesn't comply is impossible. So they are first asked to leave. If they don't they are pushed out of the area by force.

If reporters are too close to the police line that is pushing people they will get pushed along with everyone else. Breaking the line weakens it and hampers the police's efforts.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#429

Post by rpiguy » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #403

rpiguy wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

I hate to break it to you, but the Boston Tea Party that conservatives were so fond of hijacking for their own partisan purposes destroyed over a million US dollars (in today's money) in other people's property. YOU are comfortable sitting there and "defending property" because it props up a system that benefits you.

And after the revolution the government immediately cracked down on similar tax protests like the Whiskey Rebellion. So what?

On its own I agree the Tea Party is wonton vandalism. The patriots knew that too. They wanted to start a war. They also knew it was lawless and it was debated afterwords until it set of a wave of similar vandalism.

No one outside of a very small group looks back on the race riots of 1968 with pride, or the burning of LA, or Camden.

Are the rioters trying to start a revolutionary war? I hope not. There will be a lot of death everywhere.

The rioters don’t even have a plan or goal for if they “win.” They aren’t making demands. “Fix the police“ and “end systemic racism” isn’t something that can just happen. The rioters don’t have Federalist Papers or any plan for what’s next (unless you count the Communist Manefesto).

Personally I’d like these things to happen too. The police shouldn’t be terrifying. When I was growing up they were likable Andy Griffith types. Everyone knew them. Now they are shaven headed paramilitary. I have no idea who my local cops are. Wtf?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#430

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #355

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just love how everyone hates cops and talks about how every single one of them is worthless yet they expects them to save their store from being looted. You decided you were better off without me, fine, save your own store.

> You decided you were better off without me, fine, save your own store. For what it's worth, this is why people hate cops! No one said anything about all cops being worthless, and you're saying that victims of crimes deserve it for not praising police brutality.

You literally said “this is why people hate cops” right before saying that nobody said that about “all cops”.

There are other examples all over this thread. Nobody is complaining about a specific cop, they’re generalizing everything to “cops”. That’s what that is.

you're saying that victims of crimes deserve it for not praising police brutality

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such absurd fabrications? Anyone can scroll up and easily see that I did not say any such thing.